Moja Matka Boska Smoleńska 9/10.04.2010 i Tobie Drogi Czytelniku

Niech Czuwa Nad Nami. Niech czuwa nad Polską.

 

 

 Prezentowane poniżej FORUM: to FORUM LOTNICZE.

Dlaczego wpisy  z dnia 9 kwietnia 2010 roku zostałe poddane powtórnej EDYCJI z przeniesieniem na dzień 10 kwietnia 2010 roku!!!

 

Dziękuję Kapitanie Nemo S’. Przejdzie Pan do Historii jako Samotny żeglarz.

Dedykuję Panu Utwór Roda STEWARTA

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQhr4UcFt0&feature=kp

 

I'm Sailing By ROD STEWART

 Dziękuję Blogerowi @STAN35.

[" http://stan35.salon24.pl/562500,klamstwo-smolenskie-a-czas-wydarzen,2

 

 

21.01 13:11 Odsłon: 1779 (w tym z lubczasopism 124) 45 Komentuj

Kłamstwo smoleńskie a czas wydarzeń

35stan

ciąg dalszy ...

Wynika z tego wniosek, ze brytyjska stacja nadawała w tym samym czasie lokalnym co stacja polska, czyli w Polsce media nadawały z 1-dno godzinnym opóźnieniem.

Jeśli dodamy do tego fakt, przedstawiony wprost przez hiszpańskojęzyczną stację rosyjską Russia Today , która relacje o wydarzeniach z tego dnia podawała w czasie rosyjskim zimowym(UTC/GMT+3) , to wniosek o zmanipulowanym czasie zdarzeń związanych z tzw. katastrofą smoleńską, należy uznać za słuszny.

Oto linki do filmów archiwalnych na YT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKVieKRgteQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKRa5ZYN-zk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG7mES6V1WU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFjjugumQ4A

 

Na koniec pytanie skierowane do obu grup blogerów (tych popierających Raport KBWLLP i tych popierających raporty ZP):

Jak długo jeszcze będziecie traktować z powagą i nabożeństwem te dokumenty, które z takim zapałem obrabiacie, broniąc ich rzekomej prawdziwości?"]

To Bloger @STAN35

 

3 Ważne PUZZLE na drodze Smoleńskiej:

w dniu 9 kwietnia 2010 roku Stewardessa śp. Justyna Moniuszko była na pokładzie samolotu w locie do Smoleńska.

 

 

 

 

Pamięci Ojca Justyny Moniuszko śp. Zdzisława Moniuszko DEDYKUJĘ tę pracę powstałą na MATERIAŁACH Kapitana Nemo S”: Przyjaciela ze Stanów Zjednoczonych Ameryki Północnej

 

Moja HIPOTEZA: DO wypadku TU154M (102?) doszło w dniu 9 kwietnia 2010 roku w godzinach popołudniowych. LOT767SP-LPA  i dalsze…

, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:42:16 czasu lokalnego

 

Do Katynia udała się Pielgrzymka ze 132 Osobami na pokladzie. 87 Osób z Nich poniosło ŚMIERĆ. Reszta jest ZAKŁADNIKAMI TEGO WYDARZENIA TRAGEDII SMOLEŃSKIEJ, TRAGEDII NARODOWEJ KTÓRA MOGŁA ROZPOCZĄĆ WOJNĘ.

 

Początki Tragedii Narodowej to kłótnie w rodzinie od 1 września 2009 rokuna Westerplatte. Rodzi się na naszych oczach Nowa TARGOWICA XXiw.

 

Miejsce Tragedii to z bardzo dużym prawdopodobieństwem „Diabelski PRUD” nieopodal Peczorska.

 

Пенеснарь

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Artykuł Wikipedii: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пенеснарь

Miasta w pobliżu: Смоленск, Ярцево, Орша

Współrzędne:  54°55'57"N 31°58'38"E

 

 

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=pl&lat=54.945780&lon=31.930540&z=16&m=b

 

 

Rodziny  - 25.05.2014 Pielgrzymka Ojca Świętego do Betlejem - Smoleńskie zostały ZAKŁDNIKAMI TEJ TEJEMNICY WAGI PAŃSTWOWEJ. Przecież do tej pory nie wiemy kiedy Ich Bliscy opuścili Dom Rodzinny udając się na Okęcie.

 

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/bialystok/justysia-szybuje-wysoko-w-chmurach/enmj9

 

Maciej Stańczyk, Dziennikarz Onetu

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12 kwi 10 17:56

Justysia szybuje wysoko w chmurach

Cze­kam na te­le­fon od żony, po­je­cha­ła do Mo­skwy po naszą có­recz­kę. Ju­sty­sia wróci do domu. W trum­nie - pła­cze Zdzi­sław Mo­niusz­ko, oj­ciec ste­war­des­sy, która w so­bo­tę zgi­nę­ła pod Smo­leń­skiem.

Zdzi­sław Mo­niusz­ko stara się być twar­dzie­lem. Na py­ta­nia od­po­wia­da krót­ko, rze­czo­wo, lekko ści­szo­nym gło­sem. Po chwi­li jed­nak pęka. Roz­kle­ja się. Pła­cze szcze­rze, uczci­wie, tak jak oj­ciec pła­cze po stra­cie uko­cha­nej córki. Zwie­rza się.

- Wpa­dła na świę­ta. Tylko na chwi­lę, bo cią­gle była w roz­jaz­dach. Już mu­sia­ła le­cieć do Gdań­ska, do pre­mie­ra Tuska. Opo­wia­da­ła, że zaraz po świę­tach co chwi­la bę­dzie w po­dró­ży do Ka­ty­nia i Smo­leń­ska. Dzień przed ka­ta­stro­fą też tam była, nawet le­cia­ła tym samym sa­mo­lo­tem. To la­ta­nie to było całe jej życie. Szyb­ko je stra­ci­ła, za szyb­ko - wspo­mi­na ostat­nie spo­tka­nie z córką pan Zdzi­sław.

W so­bo­tę włą­czył radio. Spi­ker mówił już o tra­ge­dii pod Smo­leń­skiem. Czar­no zro­bi­ło mu się przed ocza­mi. Prze­cież tam jest moja córka - po­my­ślał. Chwy­cił za te­le­fon, wy­krę­cił numer do Ju­sty­ny. Nie od­bie­ra­ła. Znów mgła za­szła mu na oczy. Po chwi­li iskier­ka na­dziei. Może jesz­cze lecą, może spi­ker się po­my­lił, może jest za­ję­ta i nie może ode­brać te­le­fo­nu. Może nie wsia­dła do tego prze­klę­te­go sa­mo­lo­tu, prze­sia­dła się do in­ne­go. I żyje. Wszyst­ko z nią w po­rząd­ku. Tylko za­ję­ta jest, dla­te­go nie może ode­brać. Jedna myśl go­ni­ła drugą.

Ale Ju­sty­na wsia­dła do rzą­do­we­go Tu­po­le­wa. To był jej kurs, od dwóch lat la­ta­ła z pre­zy­den­tem. Do tego z pre­mie­rem, mar­szał­kiem sejmu, mi­ni­stra­mi. Po całym świe­cie - od Afga­ni­sta­nu przez Stany Zjed­no­czo­ne, po Bruk­se­lę. Ostat­ni lot - Smo­leńsk. So­bo­ta. 8:56.

- Przy­je­chał Marek Mi­łosz, pilot, który kilka lat temu roz­bił się śmi­głow­cem z Lesz­kiem Mil­le­rem na po­kła­dzie. Pra­co­wał z moją córką. Razem la­ta­li rzą­do­wy­mi sa­mo­lo­ta­mi, słu­ży­li w tym samym pułku. Był wzru­szo­ny - wspo­mi­na oj­ciec ste­war­des­sy.

Bia­ły­stok, ro­dzin­ne mia­sto Ju­sty­ny za­pła­ka­ło. Ktoś ze zna­jo­mych wy­sta­wił jej zdję­cie prze­pa­sa­ne kirem. Ktoś inny za­pa­lił znicz. Potem po­ja­wi­ły się ko­lej­ne. Lu­dzie za­czę­li dzwo­nić do domu Mo­niusz­ków. Nawet ci, co znali ją tylko z wi­dze­nia. Skła­da­li kon­do­len­cje, współ­czu­li.

- To miłe, ale co to po­mo­że. Co po­mo­że, psy­cho­log, po­kle­py­wa­nie po ple­cach. Nasza Ju­styn­ka zgi­nę­ła. Całe życie miała przed sobą. A już jej nie ma - mówi oj­ciec. I ner­wo­wo cho­dzi po miesz­ka­niu. Czeka na te­le­fon od żony. Po­je­cha­ła do Mo­skwy zi­den­ty­fi­ko­wać zwło­ki. Stoi w ko­lej­ce do kost­ni­cy. Jest w czwar­tej gru­pie ro­dzin. Na razie zmar­łych bli­skich szu­ka­ją ro­dzi­ny z pierw­szej grupy. Tej naj­waż­niej­szej.

Chcia­ła latać

W lipcu skoń­czy­ła­by 25 lat. Od dziec­ka nie mogła usie­dzieć na miej­scu. Chcia­ła latać. Pierw­szy raz ze spa­do­chro­nem sko­czy­ła na obo­zie har­cer­skim, jesz­cze jako na­sto­lat­ka. Póź­niej był już ae­ro­klub w Bia­łym­sto­ku. Tam od­da­ła ponad 250 sko­ków, przez sześć lat. Sporo, jak na swój wiek.

- Pół ekipy się w niej pod­ko­chi­wa­ło. Pięk­na była. Do tego cały czas uśmiech­nię­ta. Wszy­scy ją lu­bi­li. Jej po pro­stu nie dało się nie lubić - wspo­mi­na Jerzy Pło­now­ski, który uczył Ju­sty­nę ska­kać ze spa­do­chro­nem.

Ostat­ni raz wi­dzie­li się ponad roku temu. Bia­ły­stok za­czął być za cia­sny dla Ju­sty­ny. Naj­pierw wy­je­cha­ła do Rze­szo­wa, na stu­dia.  Chcia­ła być pi­lo­tem. La­ta­ła na szy­bow­cach. Póź­niej prze­nio­sła się do War­sza­wy. Za­czę­ła pracę w LOT, po roku prze­nio­sła się do rzą­do­we­go pułku. Speł­nia­ła swoje ma­rze­nia i znów pod­bi­ja­ła serca. Czte­ry lata temu zo­sta­ła miss Po­li­tech­ni­ki War­szaw­skiej. Za­ko­cha­ła się. Teraz Paweł też po­le­ciał do Rosji. Po­że­gnać się z uko­cha­ną. Zo­ba­czyć jej zwło­ki.

W Pol­sce zo­sta­li przy­ja­cie­le. Kłócą się ze świa­tem. - Jakie strasz­nie nie­spra­wie­dli­we i okrut­ne to życie. Takie dziew­czy­ny muszą od­cho­dzić. Bądź szczę­śli­wa, gdzie­kol­wiek teraz je­steś. Może spo­tkasz Tam mo­je­go syna, też pięk­ne­go, mą­dre­go chło­pa­ka, któ­re­go po­ko­nał no­wo­twór, po rocz­nej walce - na­pi­sa­ła na forum in­ter­ne­to­wym Po­li­tech­ni­ki War­szaw­skiej ano­ni­mo­wa ko­bie­ta.

Kamil, ko­le­ga Ju­sty­ny ze stu­diów, dodał: "Wciąż nie mogę uwie­rzyć. Nie wie­rzę. Ju­sty­na, ode­zwij się, gdy wró­cisz".

Ale ona nie wróci. Wy­so­ko szy­bu­je w chmu­rach. Razem z Basią i Na­ta­lią. Po cichu po­wta­rza swoje motto - droga do celu jest rów­nie ważna jak on sam.

Źródło: Onet

 

 

 

http://smolensk-2010.pl/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/vlcsnap-2010-09-30-13h46m51s159.png

 

23 AndrewUber : MSNBC donosi, 132 były na pokładzie - 87 zmarłych - nie przeżył ...... Oczywiście nadal sporo zamieszania w tym momencie. Rosyjskie agencje informacyjne zgłaszane w 

 

 

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/121103/#401

 

david_itl:

 MODERATOR BLOGU

 

 

Sob 10 kwietnia 2010 09:38:52 czasu lokalnego 

 

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LOT767SP-LPA  i dalsze…

 

 

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, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:42:16 czasu lokalnego

 

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Polski Zawieszanie AF Tu-154 w Smoleńsku

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO CZŁONKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE david_itl Z Wielka Brytania, dołączył do czerwca 2001, 7339 posty, RR: 14 Wysłany Sob 10 kwietnia 2010 09:38:52 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:             BBC ma najświeższe informacje, że samolot z polskim prezydentem rozbił się podejścia do Smoleńska. I krótkaopowieść została przygotowane, ale spodziewam się, być na bieżąco z tragiczną wiadomością. [Edytowane 2010-04-10 00:45:02]   Więcej udostępnianie

 

 

 

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ LOT767SP-LPA Od Polsce, dołączył do maja 2002 r. 156 posty, RR: 1 Odpowiedz 1, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:42:16 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

87 martwych   bardzo smutny dzień dla Polski

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ N14AZ Z Niemiec, dołączył Lut 2007, 2618 posty, RR: 25 Reply 2, zamieszczono piątek 9 kwietnia 2010 15:49:41 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

O mój Boże .... Jaki typ samolotu użył?

 

3 CPH-R : Czy ten samolot był biegły LOT, czy też Polskie Siły Powietrzne wciąż mają TU154?

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Aeroflot777 Z Rosji, dołączył do marca 2004, 2993 posty, RR: 27 Odpowiedz 4, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:50:30 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Prawie żadnych szczegółów się jeszcze. Mam nadzieję, że nie będzie gorzej   RIP ofiar! Aeroflot777

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Aeroflot777 Z Rosji, dołączył do marca 2004, 2993 posty, RR: 27 Odpowiedz 5, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:54:02 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Rosyjskie media sprawozdawania TU -154 poszedł na lądowanie w Smoleńsku. Prezes potwierdził na pokładzie, a nie przeżył znaleziono. Wszyscy zginęli.   Aeroflot777

 

6 f.pier : RIP. Bardzo smutna wiadomość. Jaki typ samolotu było?

 

7 Tobseren : Myślę, że to Tu-154, ostatnio wykonane zdjęcie polskiego Tupolewa na airliners.net jest od 25 marca 2010 sytuacja Sad, RIP..

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Aeroflot777 Z Rosji, dołączył do marca 2004, 2993 posty, RR: 27 Odpowiedz 8, zamieszczono piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:58:21 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

http://gazeta.ru/news/lastnews/2010/04/10/n_1481368.shtml Prasa jest wspomnieć, że polskie zespoły powiedzieć samolot rozbił się na podejściu, tuż na końcowy to uderzył w drzewo, a następnie udał się na ogniu do czasu, gdy uderzył w pas startowy. Nie wydaje się dobre. Ale media mogą się mylić, jak zwykle. Miejmy nadzieję.

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Danny Z Polski Dołączył Kwiecień 2002, 3505 posty, RR: 2 Odpowiedź 9, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 15:59:28 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

To był Tu 154M tak: Zobacz w powiększeniu View Średni zdjęć © Rafael Nunes Prezydent RP z małżonką oraz wielu urzędników na pokładzie. RIP [Edytowane 2010-04-10 01:03:11]

 

10 LTU932 : Brak informacji na temat samolotu. Właśnie dostrojona do N24, ale jak dotąd żadne informacje oprócz zerwanie news ticker. Wszelkie dodatkowe informacje dostępne

 

11 MadameConcorde :. "Moskwa (BNO Aktualności) - Raporty mówią samolot z polskim prezydentem Lechem Kaczyńskim rozbił się na lotnisku w Smoleńsku w Rosji w obwodzie smoleńskim http:/

 

12 FlySSC : Jeżeli co najmniej 87 osób było na pokładzie, to nie może być Yak-40. więc myślę, że jest to prawdopodobnie Tu-154. Tylko zgłoszone w wiadomościach przez władze polskie:

 

13 oa260 : Samolot próbował lądować w gęstej mgle, prezydent był w drodze do udziału w żałobnej dla polskich żołnierzy.

 

14 Danny : To była 70. rocznica katyńskiej Masacre, stąd wiele innych urzędnicy byli z nim.

 

15 CPH-R : bardzo smutny dzień rzeczywiście RIP do wszystkich ofiar

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Viper911 Z Rosji, dołączył paź 2005, 258 postów, RR: 0 Odpowiedz 16, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 16:06:24 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Izraelskie media jest stwierdzając, że samolot rozbił się około 1,5 km od pasa startowego krótko, samolot jest to rzeczywiście polski TU -154

 

17 QatarA340 : Aljazeera wskazuje, że polski prezydent i jego żona zginęli w katastrofie! RIP Jego swój prywatny samolot prezydencki.

 

18 f.pier : Właśnie słyszałem, że na pokładzie było 132 os.

 

19 Danny : To był samolot wojskowy używany przez urzędników, a nie jego prywatne jeden. Tylko ten samolot miał 87 mandatów. [Edytowane 2010-04-10 01:29:43]

 

20 BritishWorld : Niestety, jest również Sky News donosi, że teraz prezydent rzeczywiście zginął w katastrofie. Głęboko szokujące wieści; jest fatalny dzień dla wszystkich Nati

 

21 EBGARN : szwedzkie media donoszą, że również szef polskiego banku centralnego, szef polskiej armii, i były wiceminister spraw zagranicznych na pokładzie.

 

22 Fauzi : Tak właśnie słyszałem, że też, ale nic jeszcze oficjalne w CNN ... nadzieję, że wszystko jest w porządku Wiesz, co się stało?

 

23 AndrewUber : MSNBC donosi, 132 były na pokładzie - 87 zmarłych - nie przeżył ...... Oczywiście nadal sporo zamieszania w tym momencie. Rosyjskie agencje informacyjne zgłaszane w

 

24 kiwiandrew : W tym przypadku nie jest to wątek w złym forum? W każdym razie, nawet jeśli jest w złym forum to bardzo smutna wiadomość. Sympatie do peop

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Viper911 Z Rosji, dołączył paź 2005, 258 postów, RR: 0 Odpowiedz 25, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 16:18:17 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 5 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Cytując Fauzi ( Odpowiedz 22 ): Każdy pomysł, co poszło nie tak? Izraelskie media twierdzi, że nie było gęsta mgła w okolicy, ktoś może to potwierdzić? rzeczywiście bardzo smutny dzień

 

26 airtechy : Google Earth pokazuje dwa w pobliżu lotniska .. z których żadna nie wydaje się mieć urządzenia precyzyjne lądowanie ... czyli struktur ILS. Może robili non-PR

 

27 CPH-R : Myślę, że ogólne zainteresowanie cywilnym aspekcie tej zderzeniowych gwarantuje, że przebywa tutaj. Zwłaszcza, że to wygląda jak dobry kawał Pol

 

28 BritishWorld : Dość prawda - i dalej do mojego postu na temat zgłoszenia Sky News "z prezydenta" potwierdzone "śmierć, należy po prostu wyjaśnić, że twierdzenie to jest Comi

 

29 Christopherwoo : Właśnie usłyszałem od mojego polskiego przyjaciela wszyscy pasażerowie byli urzędnicy, top 80 w kraju, w tym papieży i dyplomatów .... zły dzień

 

30 CPH-R : Duński Tv-2 News jest obecnie pokazano zdjęcia z polskiej telewizji, który najwyraźniej znalazł ekipa filmowa, którzy są na miejscu. Mnóstwo śmieci rozprzestrzeniania ar

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ Andrej Z Wielka Brytania, dołączył czerwca 2001, 872 postów, RR: 0 Odpowiedz 31, pisał Czw 09 kwietnia 2010 16:34:41 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 9 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Al Jazeera (ENG), po prostu pokazał najnowsze obrazy. Miejsce katastrofy znajduje się w lesie, pogoda zdawała mglisty, i to wygląda rzeczywiście jak Tu-154. Naprawdę smutne wieści rzeczywiście. Cheers, Andrej

 

32 EDICHC : Prawdziwie szokujące wieści ... kondolencje dla wszystkich polskich A-netters. Straszna tragedia ludzka, ale odgłosy nim będzie ogromna pustka polityczna w Pol

 

33 MadameConcorde : Dlaczego je wszystkie na jednej płaszczyźnie jest jedna rzecz, której nie mogę zrozumieć. Mój głęboki szacunek idą do ludzi i narodu polskiego.

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ FlySSC Z Francji, dołączył do sierpnia 2003, 7382 posty, RR: 57 Odpowiedz 34, pisał Czw 09 kwietnia 2010 16:40:07 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 9 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Cytując f.pier ( Odpowiedz 18 ): Właśnie słyszałem, że na pokładzie było 132 os.   Cytując Danny ( Odpowiedz 19 ): tylko ten samolot miał 87 mandatów. f.pier ma rację. 132 są teraz potwierdzone martwy w tym Prezesa.

 

35 AAEXP : "papieże" ...... O ile wiem, jest tylko jeden papież

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ keesje Od Holandii, dołączył kwi 2001, 11869 postów, RR: 44 Odpowiedz 36, pisał piątek 09 kwietnia 2010 16:45:58 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 9 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

"Polski urzędnik państwowy powiedział szef polskiej armii i szef administracji prezydenta były również na pokładzie samolotu, wraz z żoną i rodzin innych wyższych urzędników prezydenta. Samolot został również prowadzenie gubernator banku centralnego w Polsce, Sławomir Skrzypek. " RIP   "Nigdy nie pomylić ruch do działania." Ernest Hemingway

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ oa260 Od Irlandii, dołączył lis 2006, 26668 postów, RR: 58 Odpowiedz 37, pisał piątek 9 kwietnia 2010 16:46:12 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 9 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Cytując FlySSC ( Odpowiedz 34 ): f.pier ma rację. 132 są teraz potwierdzone martwy w tym Prezesa. Musimy być ostrożni z danymi nic potwierdzone i sprzecznych raportów według Sky News, jeszcze nie tak dokładne dane.

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ FlySSC Z Francji, dołączył do sierpnia 2003, 7382 posty, RR: 57 Odpowiedz 38, pisał Czw 09 kwietnia 2010 16:52:56 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 9 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Cytując oa260 ( Odpowiedz 37 ): Cytowanie FlySSC (Odpowiedz 34): f.pier ma rację. 132 są teraz potwierdzone martwy w tym Prezesa. Musimy być ostrożni z danymi nic potwierdzone i sprzecznych raportów według Sky News, nie tak dokładne dane jeszcze. Reuters jest również teraz mówić o 132 żyje ... ale masz rację. Musimy być ostrożni.  Niektórzy dziennikarze są już zgłoszenia samolot rozbił się podczas 4th próbując lądować w Smoleńsku ... jak mogą wiedzieć? Właśnie zobaczyłem pierwszy obraz katastrofy na francuskiej telewizji, niektóre odłamki wciąż w ogniu. ..

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ milan320 z Kanady, dołączył sty 2005, 869 postów, RR: 11 Odpowiedz 39, pisał Pią 09 kwiecień 2010 16:55:53 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 9 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Czytaj w polskiej gazecie, że samolot znajdował się na podejściu, ale z powodu gęstej mgły, uznanej nieudanego podejścia i udał się z odejściem. Podczas toczenia, że został złapany na niektórych drzew. To według niektórych rosyjskich urzędników, że papier został cytowania. Myślę, że samolot był około 40 lat, a od tego, co czytam, tylko polski rząd niedawno nakazał nowe samoloty wykonawczych. / Milan320   Akceptuję łapówki ... :-)

 

PROFIL UŻYTKOWNIKA WYŚLIJ SZYBKĄ MSG DODAJ DO UŻYTKOWNIKÓW RESP POMYSŁ SKREŚLENIE CYTUJ ZAZNACZONE _ oa260 Od Irlandii, dołączył lis 2006, 26668 postów, RR: 58 Odpowiedz 40, pisał piątek 9 kwietnia 2010 16:59:30 czasu lokalnego (4 lata, 1 miesiąc 2 tygodnie 1 dzień 8 godzin temu) i czytać 32767 razy:

Zastanawiam się, czy to był ten jeden fotografowałem na mojej ostatniej podróży do WAW . .

 

 

 W m-cu grudniu roku 2011 na Mój Post odezwał się Mój Przyjaciel z Stanów Zjednoczonych Ameryki Północnej i podał Dane z portalu lotniczego którego Serwer jest w Sacramento Kalifornia.

 

Prosił abym wówczas nie publikował tych zdjęć, i materiałów widząc o tym, że będą konfabulować DALEJ a KŁAMSTWO MA WIELE OBLICZY.

 

To się spełniło w czasie i przestrzeni Smoleńskiej.

Długo myślałem czy to opublikować. Ale Ile można czekać na PRAWDĘ.

 

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/67624960.jpg

 

Photo taken in Smolensky District, Smolensk Oblast, Russia

54° 56' 45.70" N  31° 55' 36.61" E

Misplaced?Suggest new location

 

 

Katastrofa TU-154 M (PLF102?) wydarzyła się 9 kwietnia 2010 roku w godzinach popołudniowych na skrajach miasteczka Peczersk. Miejsce katastrofy było maskowane pożarami w dniu 10 kwietnia 2010 roku.

 

 

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/90386636.jpg

 

Photo taken in Penesnar', Smolensk Oblast, Russia

54° 56' 11.00" N  31° 58' 20.34" E

Misplaced?Suggest new location

 

 

Na pokładzie było 132 pasażerów. Zginęło wówczas 87 OSÓB.

 

 

Zdjęcie Nr 1 obiegło cały ŚWIAT BEZPOŚREDNIO PO KATASTROFIE

 

http://s.tf1.fr/mmdia/i/19/7/l-avion-du-president-polonais-qui-s-est-ecrase-en-russie-le-10-avril-4396197smbdw_1713.jpg?v=1

 

 

 

Zdjęcie 2

 

http://static.polskieradio.pl/b1bace90-cafa-4093-9edb-1d9bfe10c3fe.file

 

 

Koniec śledztwa? Prokuratorzy nie potrzebują wraku tupolewa ...

www.polskieradio.pl663 × 364Search by image

Możliwe jest zakończenia śledztwa w sprawie katastrofy smoleńskiej bez przekazania Polsce wraku Tu-154M i rejestratorów samolotu - poinformowała Prokuratura ...

 

 

 

Zdjęcie 3

 

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/7/8869/z8869687Q,Wrak-tupolewa-w-Smolensku.jpg

 

NPW: prokuratorzy otrzymali wyniki badań próbek z wraku Tu-

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl620 × 414Search by image

Prokuratorzy badający okoliczności katastrofy smoleńskiej otrzymali dziś sprawozdanie z badań próbek z wraku Tu-154M dotyczące ewentualnej obecności ...

 

 

Zdjęcie 2 i 3 Przekaz medialny MASKIROWKI?

 

http://www.eostroleka.pl/luba/dane/pliki/obrazy/wrak_tupolewa-2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Czy da się zachować Kłamstwo . NIE DA SIĘ

 

http://wirtualnapolonia.com/2010/07/14/prawde-o-smolensku-musi-uslyszec-polska-i-caly-swiat/

 

Jaroslaw Kaczynski: PRAWDĘ O SMOLEŃSKU MUSI USŁYSZEĆ POLSKA I CAŁY ŚWIAT

„Leszek zadzwonił o 8.20. Myślałem, że już wylądował i dzwoni ze Smoleńska. Bardzo rzadko dzwonił z telefonu satelitarnego z samolotu. Powiedział mi, że z Mamą wszystko w porządku, i poradził, bym się przespał”. Z Jarosławem Kaczyńskim rozmawiają Katarzyna Gójska-Hejke i Tomasz Sakiewicz („Gazeta Polska”).

 

fot. jaroslawkaczynski.info

Czy czuł Pan niepokój przed podróżą Brata do Katynia? 
Dla mnie sprawa zaczęła się wówczas, gdy zakwestionowano prawo wyjazdu prezydenta z rodzinami katyńskimi na coroczne uroczystości upamiętniające zamordowanych polskich oficerów. Podkreślam słowo coroczne, bo to właśnie 10 kwietnia każdego roku, a nie jak premier 7 kwietnia, organizowano wyjazd na cmentarz katyński. Tymczasem po telefonie Władimira Putina do Donalda Tuska członkowie jego gabinetu zaczęli ogłaszać wprost, że do Katynia nikt prezydenta nie zaprasza i jego wyjazd na obchody 70. rocznicy tej zbrodni nie jest koniecznością i powinnością, ale czymś w rodzaju niezrozumiałej zachcianki. Ku mojemu zdumieniu rozpoczęło się podważanie prawa Lecha Kaczyńskiego do udziału w tej uroczystości. Muszę przyznać, że choć atak był kuriozalny, nawet jak na obyczaje gabinetu Tuska i jego medialnych sojuszników, to jednak nie wzbudził we mnie jakiegoś szczególnego zdziwienia, a wiedziałem już, że są zdolni posunąć się bardzo daleko. Niepokoiło, że tym razem wprost grają z Rosjanami. 

Prezydent wahał się, czy pojechać do Katynia? 
Absolutnie nie. Przez pewien czas nie było jednak pewne, jak się tam uda i jak ten wyjazd zostanie zorganizowany. Później – nie pamiętam dokładnie kiedy – pojawiła się koncepcja dwóch wyjazdów. Premier oddzielnie i prezydent oddzielnie. Lech Kaczyński miał jechać razem z coroczną delegacją środowisk katyńskich, a Donald Tusk specjalnie do Putina. Chcę mocno podkreślić, że organizatorem tego corocznego wyjazdu środowisk katyńskich był rząd. Prezydent poleciał do Katynia rządowym samolotem. Nie prezydenckim – bo takiego nie było i nie ma. To rząd Donalda Tuska dużo wcześniej odmówił głowie państwa prawa do korzystania z tupolewa. Dopiero po katastrofie ministrowie i sam premier zaczęli nazywać ten samolot prezydenckim. To dość znamienne. Tym bardziej że prezydentowi usiłowano odmówić samolotu niejeden raz. Tak było przed słynnym wyjazdem do Tbilisi, gdy Gruzję zaatakowały wojska rosyjskie. Premier Tusk chciał odmówić Lechowi Kaczyńskiemu prawa do polecenia rządowym samolotem. Uległ po telefonie prezydenta Busha do prezydenta RP. Prezydent USA z całą mocą poparł wtedy plan Lecha Kaczyńskiego. Donald Tusk przestraszył się międzynarodowej kompromitacji i wycofał swoje zastrzeżenia. 

Pan też miał polecieć do Smoleńska 10 kwietnia? 
Tak. Nie poleciałem z powodu stanu zdrowia Mamy. Było dla nas oczywiste, że przynajmniej jeden z nas musi przy niej być. Wcześniej nawet nocami razem czuwaliśmy w szpitalu. Z natury rzeczy to ja, a nie mój brat, musiałem zrezygnować z lotu do Smoleńska. 

Nie miał Pan jakichś przeczuć przed tą podróżą Brata? Nie bał się Pan tym razem o Niego? 
Wolałem, żeby Leszek jechał pociągiem – taki specjalny pociąg wyjechał z Warszawy do Smoleńska. To pamiętam bardzo dobrze. I nawet do pewnego momentu Brat też chciał tak zrobić. Ostatecznie zdecydował się na lot samolotem, bo wcześniej musiał polecieć do Wilna na spotkanie z panią prezydent Litwy. Ale to oznaczało, że nie będzie mógł pojechać pociągiem z rodzinami katyńskimi. Przyznam, iż zmartwiłem się tym. Jednak nie przeczuwałem zbliżającej się katastrofy. Muszę też powiedzieć, że od jakiegoś czasu namawiałem prezydenta, by zrezygnował z latania tupolewami. Mówiłem to także jego współpracownikom. Wszyscy rozkładali ręce i mówili: „to czym latać?”. Mówiąc wprost, to były takie graty, że nikt się nimi nie powinien poruszać. 

Kiedy po raz ostatni widział Pan Brata? 
W szpitalu u Mamy. To było późnym wieczorem w piątek. Rozmawiał ze mną, z Mamą i z prezydenckim lekarzem, który następnego dnia także zginął. Ja również rozmawiałem z panem docentem Lubińskim. Pamiętam, że pytałem go nawet, jakim samolotem polecą do Smoleńska. Przez pewien czas byłem przekonany, że będzie to JAK, a nie tupolew. Nawet myślałem, że to może lepiej. Później jednak przypomniałem sobie wszystkie awarie JAK-ów. 10 kwietnia o 6 rano Leszek obudził mnie telefonem. Później zadzwonił o 8.20. Myślałem, że już wylądował i dzwoni ze Smoleńska. Bardzo rzadko dzwonił z telefonu satelitarnego z samolotu. Powiedział mi, że z Mamą wszystko w porządku, i poradził, bym się przespał. Pamiętam doskonale, że użył określenia: „bo się rozpadniesz”.  

Tylko o tym Pan rozmawiał wtedy z Panem Prezydentem? 
Dokładnie. Tak wyglądała ta bardzo krótka rozmowa. Dosłownie kilka zdań. Zresztą pamiętam, że zerwało połączenie. 

Nie zdziwiło to Pana? 
Nie. Bo za każdym razem gdy rozmawiałem z Bratem przez telefon satelitarny podczas lotu – a powtarzam, było zaledwie kilka takich przypadków – połączenie się zrywało. Te rozmowy były bardzo krótkie. Dosłownie kilkuzdaniowe. 

Jak się Pan dowiedział o katastrofie? 
Przyznam, że nie posłuchałem rady Leszka. Nie położyłem się spać, tylko ubierałem się i szykowałem do odwiedzenia Mamy. Akurat goliłem się, gdy zadzwonił telefon. Byłem pewien, że to brat telefonuje już ze Smoleńska. Usłyszałem jednak jakiś nieznajomy glos. Chyba był to któryś ze współpracowników ministra Sikorskiego. Później słuchawkę przejął sam minister. Poznałem go. Nie miałem cienia wątpliwości, że stało się coś złego. Dowiedziałem się, że doszło do katastrofy. Rozbił się samolot. Wszyscy zginęli. Powiedziałem mu: „To jest wynik waszej zbrodniczej polityki – nie kupiliście nowych samolotów”. Na tym rozmowa się skończyła

Czy minister Sikorski odpowiedział na te słowa? 
Nie. Chyba zresztą sam odłożyłem słuchawkę. Po kwadransie był następny telefon. Miałem cień nadziei, że może jednak ktoś przeżył. Znów dzwonił Sikorski i kategorycznie stwierdził, że katastrofa była wynikiem błędu pilota. Pamiętam jego słowa: „to był błąd pilota”. 

Nie miał wątpliwości co do tego? Już wtedy wiedział, że zawinił pilot? 
Tak. Oznajmił mi to zdecydowanie i jednoznacznie. Teraz myślę, że zarówno Sikorski, jak i sam Tusk bali się, że publicznie powtórzę to, co powiedziałem Sikorskiemu podczas pierwszej rozmowy telefonicznej. Jednak moje myśli skierowane były wtedy całkowicie na Mamę. W jej stanie nie przeżyłaby tej strasznej informacji. Popędziłem do szpitala i poprosiłem o stworzenie Mamie takich warunków, by uchronić ją przed wiadomością o śmierci Leszka. Nie było to proste – leżała na 8-osobowej sali. W szpitalu lekarze podali mi środki uspokajające. Bardzo mi pomogły. Gdy zabezpieczyłem Mamę, miałem już tylko jeden cel – jak najszybciej pojechać do Smoleńska. 

Kto zorganizował tę podróż? 
Przyjaciele. Szczególnie muszę wyróżnić Staszka Kostrzewskiego. Był ze mną też mój cioteczny brat. Bardzo pomógł Paweł Kowal. Początkowo wydawało się, że to nierealne, ale dzięki ich determinacji udało się. Wynajęli samolot. Lotnisko w Smoleńsku zostało zamknięte, polecieliśmy zatem do Witebska na Białorusi. Wcześniej namawiano mnie, bym poleciał z Donaldem Tuskiem. 

Kto namawiał? 
Nie pamiętam. Dzwonił ktoś od premiera. Miałem wrażenie, że Donald Tusk zdecydował się polecieć do Smoleńska wtedy, gdy dowiedział się, że ja tam lecę. Być może się mylę, ale tak to zapamiętałem. Nie chciałem jednak lecieć z premierem. Poleciałem z przyjaciółmi. Wylądowaliśmy zresztą w Witebsku przed Tuskiem. Strona białoruska zachowała się bardzo poprawnie. Na lotnisku czekał autokar i samochódosobowy. Wsiedliśmy i ruszyliśmy w drogę do Smoleńska. Po drodze zorientowaliśmy się, że tempo jazdy jest spowalniane. Dziś wiem, że nasze postoje i powolne tempo jazdy były wymuszone przez ścigającą nas delegację z premierem Tuskiem, który koniecznie chciał dotrzeć do Smoleńska przed nami. W pewnym momencie limuzyna z Donaldem Tuskiem minęła nas i dopiero wtedy pozwolono nam normalnie jechać. To była zresztą jakaś kompletna paranoja. Bo jeśli premier polskiego rządu ścigał się ze mną, kto pierwszy dojedzie do miejsca katastrofy, to widocznie szczególnie zależało mu, by się tam pokazać. Państwo wybaczą, ale nie jestem w stanie nawet zrozumieć takiej mentalności. Ja jechałem do ciał moich najbliższych – do Leszka, Marylki, Przyjaciół. To, co wyrabiał wówczas pan Tusk, po prostu nie mieści mi się w głowie. 

Ma Pan pewność, że was zatrzymywano celowo? 
Nie mam co do tego wątpliwości. Rozmawialiśmy z kierowcą. Mówił nam „nie lzja”. Ale jak limuzyna z premierem Tuskiem bez zatrzymania nas minęła, rozkaz przestał obowiązywać. Dopiero w Smoleńsku znowu nas spowalniano. W pewnym miejscu zaczęliśmy dosłownie kręcić się w kółko, zanim dotarliśmy do lotniska, które znajduje się przecież niedaleko centrum Smoleńska. 

W kampanii prezydenckiej unikał Pan wypowiedzi o katastrofie smoleńskiej. Czy teraz też tak będzie?
Nie chciałem, by śmierć moich najbliższych stała się głównym tematem kampanii wyborczej. Jednak jest sprawą zupełnie oczywistą, że państwo polskie nie może przejść do porządku nad tą niespotykaną wprost tragedią. Uczynię wszystko, by wyjaśnić przyczyny katastrofy samolotu rządowego. To jest dziś dla mnie najważniejsze i osobiście, i politycznie. Będę zabiegał o wyciągnięcie konsekwencji nie tylko prawnych wobec tych, którzy mogli przyczynić się do tego zdarzenia, ale także politycznych i moralnych. Ustalenie osób odpowiedzialnych politycznie za katastrofę smoleńską nie wymaga śledztwa. Ale to trzeba powiedzieć w odpowiednim momencie tak, by usłyszała o tym cała Polska i cały świat. 

Całość wywiadu z Jarosławem Kaczyńskim w środowym wydaniu tygodnika „Gazeta Polska”

Za: www.niezalezna.pl

http://niezalezna.pl/article/show/id/36553/articlePage/1

 

 

Potem przyszedł Maj 2010,2011,2012, 2013,2014-05-24

 

 

 

 

http://www.gazetapolska.pl/uploads/foto/2012/09/39_trumny_-_fot_archiwum_anity_gargas.jpg

 

 

 

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/522815_368941696524783_1076821290_n.jpg

 

Nie widać "SPASATIELI" ani "Wraczy" a tylko media dopuszczone do MIEJSCA TRAGEDII NARODOWEJ na Polance Siewiernyj XUBS Siewiernyj

 

 

 

http://niezalezna.pl/uploads/foto2014/53594-654041396352774.jpg

 

 

Taki obraz ma zostać w głowie Czytelników. Katatsrofa Smoleńska miała miejsce 10.04.2010

 

http://3obieg.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/7374899_3.jpg

 

 

http://media.wpolityce.pl/cache/55/9f/559fdeb164800f1491b360a174823bd2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

http://clouds.salon24.pl/246980,tu-154-byl-w-smolensku-9-04-a-7-04-tusk-polecial-casa

 

6.11.2010 20:19 Odsłon: 30603 (w tym z lubczasopism 1324) 390 Komentuj

Tu-154 był w Smoleńsku 9.04, a 7.04 Tusk poleciał Casą

Ojciec Justyny Moniuszko twierdzi, że córka poleciała dzień wcześniej do Smoleńska, czyli w piątek 9. kwietnia. Co więcej, była na pokładzie tego samego samolotu - Tu-154 101.

"- Wpadła na święta. Tylko na chwilę, bo ciągle była w rozjazdach. Już musiała lecieć do Gdańska, do premiera Tuska. Opowiadała, że zaraz po świętach co chwila będzie w podróży do Katynia i Smoleńska. Dzień przed katastrofą też tam była, nawet leciała tym samym samolotem. To latanie to było całe jej życie. Szybko je straciła, za szybko - wspomina ostatnie spotkanie z córką pan Zdzisław". 

wiadomosci.onet.pl/raporty/katastrofa-smolenska/justysia-szybuje-wysoko-w-chmurach,1,3355107,wiadomosc.html

Podobnie mówi dla "Lotniczej Polski":

"– Dzień przed katastrofą też była w Smoleńsku, tym samym samolotem – mówi Zdzisław Moniuszko. – A jeszcze wcześniej latała z premierem."

lotniczapolska.pl/Odeszla-Justyna-Moniuszko--stewardessa-z-Bialegostoku,12769

 

Jakim samolotem leciał Tusk 7. kwietnia?

Barbara Maciejczyk leciała 7. kwietnia do Smoleńska z premierem Tuskiem, ale nie Tu-154, ale Casą!  Informacja pochodzi od dziennikarza Radia Zet, Sławomira Krenczyka, który opisuje niewygodny lot Casą 7.kwietnia do Smoleńska i który nawet miał przyjemność rozmawiać z Barbarą Maciejczyk.

 "Stewardessa w Smoleńsku była już trzy dni wcześniej. Leciała z delegacją, której przewodniczył Donald Tusk.Wtedy udało jej sie szczęśliwie wrócić do domu. O przedostatnim locie Maciejczyk wspomina jeden z dziennikarzy, którzy w środę byli na uroczystościach w Katyniu. Tyle, że wtedy delegacja wraz z dziennikarzami na miejsce poleciała nie tupolewem, ale wojskowym samolotem CASA.

- Warunki mieliśmy spartańskie. Siedzieliśmy obok siebie na wąskich, niewygodnych ławach i rozmawialiśmy całą drogę. Uśmiechnięta,ciepła, pełna życia dziewczyna opowiadała mi o swoim marzeniu z młodości, gdy chciała zostać pilotem. 

- Wspominała o tym, że niedawno dostała mundur i chętnie go zakłada, bo dzięki niemu już się tak nie wyróżnia na pułkowej stołówce. Mówiła, że nie chce latać w cywilnych liniach lotniczych - mówi Sławek Krenczyk, reporter Radia ZET".

www.fakt.pl/Barbara-Maciejczyk-3-stewardessa,artykuly,69180,1.html

 

Już chyba nie ma teraz wątpliwości, że Tu-154 nie poleciał do Smoleńska 7. kwietnia.

….

 

Treść komentarzy na FORUM:

 

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/121103/

 

 

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Change Forum... Civil Aviation Travel, Polls & Prefs Tech/Ops Aviation Hobby Aviation Photography Photography Feedback Trip Reports Military Av & Space Non-Aviation Site Related LIVE Chat My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search    ' border=0 v:shapes="star"> Polish AF Tu-154 Crash In Smolensk     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP MEMBERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT david_itl  From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7339 posts, RR: 14 Posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:38:52 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times: alt="Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!" v:shapes="_x0000_i1040">             BBC has breaking news that plane with the Polish President has crashed on approach to Smolensk. And a brief story has now been put up but I expect will be updated with the tragic news. [Edited 2010-04-10 00:45:02]   ' v:shapes="_x0000_i1042">More Sharing Services v:shapes="_x0000_i1044">     401 replies: All unread, showing first 25:       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ LOT767SP-LPA  From Poland, joined May 2002, 156 posts, RR: 1  Reply 1, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:42:16 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     87 dead   very sad day for poland      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ N14AZ  From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2618 posts, RR: 25  Reply 2, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:49:41 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Oh my God.... What type of airplane did he use?        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5922 posts, RR: 3  Reply 3, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:49:46 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Would this have been a chartered LOT plane, or does the Polish Air Force still have their Tu154?      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27  Reply 4, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:50:30 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Hardly any details out yet. I hope it's not going to get worse   RIP to the victims! Aeroflot777        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27  Reply 5, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:54:02 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Russian media reporting the TU-154 went down on landing into Smolensk. President was confirmed on board, and no survivors are found.Everyone perished.   Aeroflot777      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ f.pier  From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 10  Reply 6, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:55:38 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     RIP. Very sad news. What type of aircraft was it?        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Tobseren  From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 40 posts, RR: 0  Reply 7, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:56:53 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3): Would this have been a chartered LOT plane, or does the Polish Air Force still have their Tu154? I think it is the Tu-154, the last picture taken of the Polish Tupolev on airliners.net is from 25th of March 2010. Sad situation, RIP.      Flown on: A300, A320, A321, ATR42, ATR72, B733, B738, E170, MD82, Saab 340   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27  Reply 8, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:58:21 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     http://gazeta.ru/news/lastnews/2010/04/10/n_1481368.shtml Press is mentioning that Polish teams say the aircraft crashed on approach, right on final it hit a tree and then went on fire by the time it hit the runway. Doesn't seem good. But media can be wrong as usual.Let's hope.        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2  Reply 9, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:59:28 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     It was a Tu 154M like this: View Large View Medium alt="Click here for bigger photo!" v:shapes="_x0000_i1076"> Photo © Rafael Nunes The President of Poland with his wife and many officials on board.RIP [Edited 2010-04-10 01:03:11]      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ LTU932  From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50  Reply 10, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:59:46 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     No information on the aircraft. I just tuned in to N24 but no information so far except for the breaking news ticker. Any additional information available says that 84 people died in the crash, including Lech Kaczynski and his wife. Unless he always travels with a big staff, my guess is that the aircraft was civilian. EDIT: N24 is now presuming that it was indeed the Presidential Tu-154. They also say that the landing was apparently in the fog. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:02:58] [Edited 2010-04-10 01:03:35]        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ MadameConcorde  From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10760 posts, RR: 38  Reply 11, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:01:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     "MOSCOW (BNO NEWS) -- Reports say a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed at Smolensk Airport in Russia's Smolensk Oblast.  http://wireupdate.com/wires/2914/bno-eu-int-bulletin-11/" Polish President Lech Kaczynski 'in plane crash' Russia map A plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed near a Russian airport, officials say. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8612825.stm Unconfirmed but apparently the President is dead among at least 80 others RIP Mr President and all those who died in the crash.        There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57  Reply 12, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:02:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting N14AZ (Reply 2): What type of airplane did he use? If at least 87 people were on board, it can't be the Yak-40. so I guess it's probably a Tu-154. Just reported on the news by the Polish Authorities : No survivors. The President of Poland and several Polish Officials and families were on board. Mr Kaczynski was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet troops killed thousands of Poles. The plane hit trees on approach, crashed and caught fire. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:05:46]        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ oa260  From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26665 posts, RR: 58  Reply 13, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:02:56 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Aircraft was trying to land in heavy fog , President was on his way to attend a memorial service for Polish troops.      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2  Reply 14, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:04:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting oa260 (Reply 13): Aircraft was trying to land in heavy fog , President was on his way to attend a memorial service for Polish troops. It was 70th anniversary of Katyn masacre, hence many other officials were with him.        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5922 posts, RR: 3  Reply 15, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:04:50 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     A very sad day indeed, RIP to all the victims        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Viper911  From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0  Reply 16, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:06:24 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Israeli Media is stating that the aircraft crashed about 1.5km short of the runway, the aircraft in question is indeed a Polish TU-154        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ QatarA340  From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1784 posts, RR: 6  Reply 17, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:06:50 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     AlJazeera indicates that the Polish President and his wife has died in the crash!RIP Its his private Presidential Plane.      لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ f.pier  From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 10  Reply 18, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:06:58 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     I've just heard there were 132 pax onboard.        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2  Reply 19, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:12:00 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 17): AlJazeera indicates that the Polish President and his wife has died in the crash! RIP Its his private Presidential Plane. It was a military plane used by officials, not his private one. Quoting f.pier (Reply 18): I've just heard there were 132 pax onboard. This aircraft only had 87 seats. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:29:43]      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ BritishWorld  From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0  Reply 20, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:12:01 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Regrettably, Sky News is also now reporting that the President was indeed killed in the crash. Deeply shocking news; it is a terrible day for any nation when it loses its leader.      "sic itur ad astra."     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ EBGARN  From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 222 posts, RR: 0  Reply 21, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:13:24 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Swedish media is reporting that also the head of the Polish central bank, the head of the Polish army, and the deputy foreign minister were on board. A very sad day indeed!      A306,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/6,A380,B717,B727,B737,B744,B752/3,B763,B772/3/W,C-130,AN26,CRJ900,Il62,DC-8/9/10,MD80's,BaeR   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Fauzi  From Brunei, joined Jul 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0  Reply 22, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:13:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Yeah I just heard that too, but nothing official on CNN yet... Hope everything is alright    Any idea what went wrong?      BI - The Asian Underdog     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ AndrewUber  From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41  Reply 23, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:14:26 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     MSNBC is reporting 132 were aboard - 87 dead - no survivors...... Obviously still a lot of confusion at this point.  Russian news agencies reported at least 87 people died in the crash near Smolensk airport in western Russia, citing the Russian Emergencies Ministry. They reported 132 people were aboard the Tupolev Tu-154.  Polish state news agency PAP said there were no survivors.  People often post what they see in the media, and we all know the media doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to aviation. RIP to all aboard, what a sad day for Poland.  View Large View Medium Photo © Thomas Brackx [Edited 2010-04-10 01:35:36]      I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ kiwiandrew  From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8503 posts, RR: 14  Reply 24, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:14:26 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times: alt="Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!" v:shapes="_x0000_i1131">                   Quoting Danny (Reply 19): It was a military plane used by officials In that case isn't this thread in the wrong forum ? In any case , even though it is in the wrong forum this is very sad news .Sympathies to the people of Poland . [Edited 2010-04-10 01:15:38]      Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Viper911  From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:18:17 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Fauzi (Reply 22): Any idea what went wrong? Israeli media states that there was a heavy fog in the area, someone can confirm that? a very sad day indeed       26 airtechy : Google Earth shows two airports nearby..neither of which appear to have precision landing devices...ie ILS structures.Maybe they were making a non-pr     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5923 posts, RR: 3 Reply 27, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:29:29 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 24): In that case isn't this thread in the wrong forum ? I think the general interest in the civilian aspect of this crash warrants that it stays here. Especially since it looks like a good chunk of the Polish leadership has just been wiped out. The president, the leader of the opposition, the deputy secretary of state, the leader of the National Security Bureau, the Chief of Staff, and the list goes on. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:30:09]     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ BritishWorld  From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0 Reply 28, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:29:39 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 23): Be nice - I doubt it was intentional. People often post what they see in the media, and we all know the media doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to aviation. Quite true - and further to my post about Sky News' reporting of the President's "confirmed" death, I should just clarify that that assertion is coming from reports from Smolensk government officials that there were apparently no survivors. No word of who these officials might be, and how in the loop they are on these details, so of course - as with all breaking news situations - we must treat all news that comes out as being dubious until confirmed by multiple reliable sources.  For what it's worth, BBC News has also just mentioned claims by Russian news agencies that there were 132 people on board, but they've rightly labelled that claim as 'unconfirmed' and their own reportage is sticking with the total number of souls on board as 87.  On a personal note, I'd also like to add my sympathies to the people of Poland, and indeed to our Polish friends here on A.net for the loss to their nation; perhaps some here may have disagreed with the policies of President Kaczynski, but a national and human tragedy such as this really does transcend political divides in civilised societies. One hopes that the Polish people will find comfort in finding some unity with each other and with their global friends as the process of national healing begins in the wake of this disaster.   "sic itur ad astra."     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Christopherwoo  From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:32:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Just heard from my polish friend all passengers were officials, the top 80 in the country including popes and diplomats....bad day     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5923 posts, RR: 3 Reply 30, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:32:58 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Danish Tv-2 News is currently showing pictures from Polish TV, who apparently has found a camera crew who are at the scene. Plenty of debris spread around, with nothing immediately recognisable apart from the tail which has apparently survived in one piece. A couple of small fires are being put out by the firefighters who are on the scene. Not sure if it's due to the fires, but it does appear to be a bit foggy.       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Andrej  From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 872 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:34:41 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Al Jazeera (ENG) just showed latest images. The crash site is in woods, the weather seemed foggy, and it does look indeed like Tu-154. Really sad news indeed. Cheers, Andrej     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ EDICHC  From New Zealand, joined Nov 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 14 Reply 32, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:37:45 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Truly shocking news...condolences to all Polish A-netters. A terrible human tragedy, but by the sounds of it there will be a huge political void in Poland once the enormity of this sinks in.   A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ MadameConcorde  From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10760 posts, RR: 38 Reply 33, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:39:00 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting CPH-R (Reply 27): it looks like a good chunk of the Polish leadership has just been wiped out. The president, the leader of the opposition, the secretary of state, the leader of the National Security Bureau, the Chief of Staff, and the list goes on. Why did they put them all on one plane is one thing I can't understand.  My deep respect goes to the people and the Nation of Poland.   There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57 Reply 34, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:40:07 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting f.pier (Reply 18): I've just heard there were 132 pax onboard.   Quoting Danny (Reply 19): This aircraft only had 87 seats. f.pier is right. 132 are now confirmed dead including the President.       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ AAEXP  From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:44:32 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 29): the top 80 in the country including popes and diplomats.... bad day "popes" ......As far as I know, there is only one Pope       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ keesje  From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 11869 posts, RR: 44 Reply 36, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:45:58 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   "A Polish government official said the head of the Polish army and the head of the presidential administration were also on board the plane, along with the president's wife and families of other senior officials. The plane was also carrying the governor of Poland's central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek." RIP   "Never mistake motion for action."Ernest Hemingway     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ oa260  From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26668 posts, RR: 58 Reply 37, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:46:12 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34): f.pier is right. 132 are now confirmed dead including the President. We must be careful with the figures nothing confirmed and conflicting reports according to Sky News, so figures not exact yet.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57 Reply 38, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:52:56 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting oa260 (Reply 37): Quoting FlySSC (Reply 34): f.pier is right. 132 are now confirmed dead including the President. We must be careful with the figures nothing confirmed and conflicting reports according to Sky News, so figures not exact yet. Reuters is also now talking about 132 dead ... but you are right. We must be careful. Some journalists are already reporting the plane crashed during its 4th attempt to land at Smolensk ... how can they know ?  We just saw the first image of the Crash on the French T.V, some debris were still on fire ...       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ milan320  From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11 Reply 39, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:55:53 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Read in a Polish newspaper that the plane was on approach, but due to heavy fog, declared missed approach and proceeded with the go-around. Whilst turning, it got caught on some trees. This according some Russian officials that the paper was quoting. I guess the plane was about 40 years old and from what I read, the Polish government recently just ordered new executive planes. /Milan320   I accept bribes ... :-)   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ oa260  From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26668 posts, RR: 58 Reply 40, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:59:30 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   I wonder if it was this one I photographed on my last trip to WAW.  .       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ mxp  From Italy, joined Aug 2003, 433 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:02:29 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   This is indeed a horrible news Rip to alll and condolances to the families Alberto     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ acabgd  From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 655 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:02:59 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting milan320 (Reply 39): I guess the plane was about 40 years old I don't know why you "guess" it was 40 years old? It was produced in 1990, delivered July 1990.   CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ acabgd  From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 655 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:04:04 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting oa260 (Reply 40): I wonder if it was this one I photographed on my last trip to WAW If the registration is 101 (can't really see on this photo) then - yes, that's the one.   CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ JoKeR  From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2231 posts, RR: 9 Reply 44, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:08:07 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Serbian TV as well as the BBC confirm that the aircraft was instructed to divert to Moscow due to poor visibility but that the pilot elected to go ahead and attempt to land.   Kafa, čaj, šraf?     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2 Reply 45, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:10:25 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting FlySSC (Reply 38): Reuters is also now talking about 132 dead ... but you are right. We must be careful. The spokeperson for Polish Foreign Affair Ministy has just confIrmed that there were 88 names on the passenger's list.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ OV735  From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3 Reply 46, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:12:30 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Horrible news. Sad day in Poland today.   It is tragic and ironic that a disaster like this struck when the delegation was going to commemorate the events of Katyn. Does anyone know, if the aircraft was 101 or 102? No luck finding a metar for Smolensk - the airport doesn't even seem to have an ICAO designator. I figure an ILS is also bit too much to be expected.       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ SOBHI51  From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 18 Reply 47, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:18:36 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times: ' alt="Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!" border=0 v:shapes="_x0000_i1212">                 Quoting JoKeR (Reply 44): Serbian TV as well as the BBC confirm that the aircraft was instructed to divert to Moscow due to poor visibility but that the pilot elected to go ahead and attempt to land. Question. If you are flying the president of a country, who does have the final word, the captain or the president, to divert or not?   I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FatmirJusufi  From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2435 posts, RR: 7 Reply 48, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:18:47 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Sad news.   RIP to all Preliminary accident description http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20100410-0 Fatmir   DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ j0rdan  From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 127 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:18:49 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Terrible news, very sad day in Poland.   Heres a news link for anybody intrested. (with video) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm] RIP jordan [Edited 2010-04-10 02:21:52] [Edited 2010-04-10 02:23:11]     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aleksandar  From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3235 posts, RR: 32 Reply 50, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:19:53 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Bad news and a sad day for Poland. May the victims rest in peace   R-E-S-P-E-C-T     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ BeakerLTN  From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:20:51 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   BBC news now updated with video of crash site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm   300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145         USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ GothamSpotter  From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:21:45 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting acabgd (Reply 43): If the registration is 101 (can't really see on this photo) then - yes, that's the one. They also used 102 for the president. Quoting OV735 (Reply 46): No luck finding a metar for Smolensk - the airport doesn't even seem to have an ICAO designator. I figure an ILS is also bit too much to be expected. Smolensk has both an airport and an air base. The airport (LNX) runway seems to be too short for a Tu-154 (5500ft) so I'm guessing they were headed to the base (XUBS), whose runway is 8400ft.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57 Reply 53, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:22:43 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting OV735 (Reply 46): Does anyone know, if the aircraft was 101 or 102? It seems to be 101       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ acabgd  From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 655 posts, RR: 0 Reply 54, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:22:57 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting OV735 (Reply 46): No luck finding a metar for Smolensk - the airport doesn't even seem to have an ICAO designator. I figure an ILS is also bit too much to be expected. The plane was landing at Smolensk-North, ICAO designator XUBS. Smolensk-South (IATA: LNX) is a very small airport with a short runway (1600m / 5249ft).   CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aleksandar  From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3235 posts, RR: 32 Reply 55, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:27:16 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 47): Question. If you are flying the president of a country, who does have the final word, the captain or the president, to divert or not? My guess is that the pilot has a final word. At least, he's the one with all responsibilities   R-E-S-P-E-C-T     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Gdabski  From Poland, joined Oct 2001, 423 posts, RR: 0 Reply 56, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:33:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 52): They also used 102 for the president. 102 is undergoing maintainence/overhaul in Moscow.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ slz396  From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 3096 posts, RR: 21 Reply 57, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:33:57 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Very sad and easily avoidable accident... Is it the first time a head of state is killed in a plane crash?  Does Poland have a Vice-President, or who's going to succeed?       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Viper911  From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 58, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:38:31 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting slz396 (Reply 57): Does Poland have a Vice-President, or who's going to succeed? According to Wikipedia its Bronisław Komorowski, in don't know if its official or not, plus i don't dent to trust Wikipedia so much..     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ BlueSky1976  From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1835 posts, RR: 4 Reply 59, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:46:22 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Bronislaw Komorowski is the speaker of the Parlament house, who becomes acting president in case of elected president's death. Also, apparently all Polish military Chiefs of Staff have perished. [Edited 2010-04-10 02:47:26]   All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57 Reply 60, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:46:32 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting slz396 (Reply 57): Is it the first time a head of state is killed in a plane crash? No. In 1994 the President Juvenal Habvarimana of Rwanda and President Cyprian Ntayamira of Burundi were on board the same aircraft that crashed near Kigali Airport. in 2004, President Boris Trajkovski of Macedonia died in a plane crash in Bosnia.  In 2008, Samora Machel, the Mozambican president died in crash of a Tupolev TU 134A-3, on its way home following the Lusaka Summit in Zambia.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ slz396  From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 3096 posts, RR: 21 Reply 61, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:48:43 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Viper911 (Reply 58): According to Wikipedia its Bronisław Komorowski, in don't know if its official or not He's just acting President, since he's the Speaker of the House. Apparently, there's no VP in Poland.       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ slz396  From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 3096 posts, RR: 21 Reply 62, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 17:51:04 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting FlySSC (Reply 60): In 1994 the President Juvenal Habvarimana of Rwanda and President Cyprian Ntayamira of Burundi were on board the same aircraft that crashed near Kigali Airport. How could I have forgotten about that one!  In a former Belgian colony... leading to the mass killing of over a million people and a huge scandal in my country over us just standing by and watching at it!         USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ tonymctigue  From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1940 posts, RR: 9 Reply 63, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:01:38 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                 May they all Rest in Piece.   Next Flights: 27/06/14 CX 178 MEL-HKG; 28/06/14 CX 830 HKG-JFK; 04/07/14 EI 134 BOS-SNN     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ MadameConcorde  From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10760 posts, RR: 38 Reply 64, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:01:38 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   List of those on board. http://www.polskieradio.pl/wiadomosci/kraj/artykul153440.html (all in Polish) R.I.P.     There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57 Reply 65, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:06:21 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Several sources are stil mentioning 132 dead... The InterFax agency is reporting that the Russian authorities proposed to the crew to divert to Minsk or Moscow because of the fog but the pilot decided to try to land in Smolensk. InteFax is also saying the plane crashed during its 4th attempt to land ... Yet to be confirmed ...       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Tobias2702  From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 701 posts, RR: 0 Reply 66, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:16:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting FlySSC (Reply 65): Several sources are stil mentioning 132 dead... If my counting is correct, there are 98 names on the pax manifest.   PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ SOBHI51  From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 18 Reply 67, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:16:47 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                 Quoting FlySSC (Reply 60): No. Will also add: President Abdul Salam Arif of Iraq died in a helicopter crash in 1966.   I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5923 posts, RR: 3 Reply 68, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:27:07 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting slz396 (Reply 61): Apparently, there's no VP in Poland. As I understand it, the role of the Polish President is largely ceremonial. The position is 'merely' that of head of state, whereas the real day to day power lies with the Prime Minister.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ milan320  From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11 Reply 69, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:40:52 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting acabgd (Reply 42): Don't shoot the messenger, just rehashing what I read in the newspaper. Maybe the meant AC type is 40 years old. Not sure.   I accept bribes ... :-)     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ acabgd  From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 655 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:54:36 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting milan320 (Reply 72): Don't shoot the messenger, just rehashing what I read in the newspaper. Maybe the meant AC type is 40 years old. Sorry, you said "I guess the plane is 40 years old" and I just asked "Why guess"? The type might be as old as you want it to be, it's the maintenance that counts. Plenty of DC-9s with over 40 years of age flying around the US daily and not a single problem. AC "type being 40 years old" then also includes B737, B747 and many others still flying fine today. This Polish presidential aircraft was delivered at about the same time as the current US Air Force One(s), therefore it's got nothing to do with its age. There was no distress call reported and it seems the pilot tried to land several times, although advised to use alternates such as Minsk or Moscow. I don't want to speculate further, but it seems the plane was not at fault here at all.   CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ BlueSky1976  From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1835 posts, RR: 4 Reply 71, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 18:55:24 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting milan320 (Reply 72): Don't shoot the messenger, just rehashing what I read in the newspaper. Maybe the meant AC type is 40 years old. Both Tu-154Ms have been delivered in late 1980s (1989 IIRC), so they were not really that old. I'd say they were on par with most of government VIP aircraft in the majority of the other countries.   All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Ltbewr  From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12929 posts, RR: 12 Reply 72, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 19:35:21 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   One news report I heard here in the USA suggested that the a/c was considering to divert to another one due to the fog conditions. That diversion would have caused greater difficulty for the passangers who were to appear at a ceremony as to a site of a great human rights mass murder at Kaytan in 1940, including many Polish citizens.  Unless the failure was due to a mechanical failure (as occured with 2 flights of LOT in the 1980's), we have to reason that the heavy fog conditions were a major contribution to this crash.To all killed, RIP.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ jayeshrulz  From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2 Reply 73, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 19:42:53 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   May the President and pilots,and all of the occupants Rest in Peace.   Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ morvious  From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 706 posts, RR: 1 Reply 74, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 19:43:39 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   People died and all we care is why this post has been mooved. R.I.P. to all who died and my condolences to families and friends.   have a good day, Stefan van Hierden   75 Aesma : Probably no ILS. Can a TU-154M sport a HUD ? One Catholic Pope, sure, but there are others. Although here he probably meant priests.Yeah, the TU-154   76 acabgd : Heh... If a plane crashes in the US would you go and say "Just as happpened in 1990s and 1980s and 1970s and....??The two LOT crashes were back in d       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aesma  From France, joined Nov 2009, 6233 posts, RR: 9 Reply 77, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:12:19 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   One black box recovered, according to Agence France Presse.   New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet.Douglas Adams   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ bigphilnyc  From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54 Reply 78, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:13:02 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Condolences to all Polish peopel and our aviation friends.What a horrible disaster.   Phil Derner Jr.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aesma  From France, joined Nov 2009, 6233 posts, RR: 9 Reply 79, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:16:23 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   AFP also reports more victims, unfortunately : 96 total, including 88 members of the delegation, and I guess 8 crew.   New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet.Douglas Adams   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Revelation  From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12095 posts, RR: 25 Reply 80, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:21:16 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   I'm so sorry to hear about this. Poland is a great partner of the EU and in NATO. And is working hard to improve relations with Russia. One article mentions how Poland's GDP is growing even in these tough times so they should feel proud. It makes the loss of so much of their leadership even more difficult to bear. Rest in peace, and know that better days lie ahead!   Inspiration, move me brightly!     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ tom355uk  From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 336 posts, RR: 3 Reply 81, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:27:51 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Aesma (Reply 76): Probably no ILS. Can a TU-154M sport a HUD ? I dont think so, but even a HUD is pretty useless without any form of vertical guidance. The best weather report I have seen states a visibility of around 0.5km. Even if your MDA was 350ft AAL you would be over 2km from the TDZ at that point, thats well into CATII ops. What type of Non-precision approach is there at Smolensk airbase? I would have guessed NDB, but I really don't know - can't locate any sources. Edited for spelling. [Edited 2010-04-10 05:28:52] [Edited 2010-04-10 05:29:35]   on Twitter @tombeckett2285   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ aerdingus  From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2783 posts, RR: 15 Reply 82, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:27:52 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   This is just terrible. Condolences to the Polish community. Hope they find out the cause soon. Just watching the Euronews coverage of the crash, and am kind of disappointed that they are going down the "this plane was delivered in 1990" and even "Russian airline SU retired it's TU 154 fleet due to safety concerns". Eh was it not because they were gas guzzlers. 1990 isn't that long ago, the Irish government uses a Gulfstream from 1991. [Edited 2010-04-10 05:40:44]   Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ osteogenesis  From Germany, joined May 2003, 647 posts, RR: 2 Reply 83, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:28:52 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Bild Online is reporting that the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk refused to fly the Tupolev planes of the Polish Air Force. After this happened maybe some people understand the decision of the German government to buy new planes for official trips.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Navigator  From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 14 Reply 84, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:33:49 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Aesma (Reply 75): Not wanting to jump to conclusion, but if it was indeed the 4th try, that doesn't sound good, you shouldn't try that much, too much stress involved. I agree with you. Many civil airlines only allow pilots a specific number of tries before going to alternate airport. Without jumping to conclusions it seems strange that such a flight with government officials is not conducted with more modern equipment. Also an ordinary ILS would be no problem if within minima for a qualified airline crew.   747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ osteogenesis  From Germany, joined May 2003, 647 posts, RR: 2 Reply 85, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:39:14 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Navigator (Reply 84): I agree with you. Many civil airlines only allow pilots a specific number of tries before going to alternate airport. Without jumping to conclusions it seems strange that such a flight with government officials is not conducted with more modern equipment. Also an ordinary ILS would be no problem if within minima for a qualified airline crew. Some news agencies are speculating that the pilot was instructed to try it so that they did not miss the very important commemoration event.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ AAEXP  From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 86, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:44:33 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 83): After this happened maybe some people understand the decision of the German government to buy new planes for official trips. Does the German government use Tupolev aircraft?       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aesma  From France, joined Nov 2009, 6233 posts, RR: 9 Reply 87, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:45:22 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Video of the crash site : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMwhZtlQ2hY You can stop at 43", after that it rewinds. The woman seems to be reading names of victims. I didn't see anything shocking. A Russian illustration : from http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2010/04/10/3349949.shtml It seems the plane hit the last trees before an opening in the forest for the runway (can also be guessed in the video) : alt="http://hfr-rehost.net/http://nsa14.casimages.com/img/2010/04/10/100410021000520030.jpg" border=0 v:shapes="_x0000_i1359"> Courtesy of Spit XIX from crash-aerien.aero   New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet.Douglas Adams   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ OV735  From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3 Reply 88, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:49:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 83): Bild Online is reporting that the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk refused to fly the Tupolev planes of the Polish Air Force. When Donald Tusk visited Tallinn, he flew on a Yak-40. I don't see why he would refuse to fly on a much more modern Tupolev, if he was fine with the Yak.Probably just a tabloid-style claim. Quoting AAEXP (Reply 86): Does the German government use Tupolev aircraft? The government of the DDR did, and the Tu-154 was taken over and used by the Luftwaffe after the reunion, until late 1990's, when it collided with an USAF C141 somewhere over Southern Africa.       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ miszaqq  From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 2 posts, RR: 0 Reply 89, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:50:59 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 55): Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 47): Question. If you are flying the president of a country, who does have the final word, the captain or the president, to divert or not? My guess is that the pilot has a final word. At least, he's the one with all responsibilities Just to clarify some things, on the official passanger list there were 89 names (but one person never get on board the aircraft, so there were 88 people) plus 7 crew members, so some media may probably add 89 passangers and 7 crew members. Remember that there were President and Polish Air Force Commander (Lt. Gen. Andrzej BLASIK) onboard, and apparently they were going late, as that crash happened at 8:56 and the ceremony they were heading to was due to start at 9:30. It was also their 4th approach to land at Smolensk airport, and my guess is that the pilot may have been simply ordered to land here and now, or beeing under so much pressure with all those onboard that he decided to try again and again. There are also a story from august 2008 when the polish, ukrainian, lithuanian, latvian and estonian presidenst were onboard of polish TU154 (don't if the same that crashed today), and due to security pilot refused to land in Georgia capital Tibilisi, and diverted the plane to Azerbaijan. That time he refused to follow the order given to him by deputy of Polish Air Force Commander, but later he (the pilot - Grzegorz Pietruczuk) was granted with medal from polish ministry of defence. So maybe this time they ordered the pilot to land despite bad weather conditions at smolensk airport. On board of todays filght that crashed in smolensk were: Gen. Bronislaw Kwiatkowski (Commander Operations) Gen. Andrew Blasik (Air Force Commander in Chief) Gen. Tadeusz Buk (Commander of Land Forces) Gen. Wojciech Potasinski (Commander of Special Forces) Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta (Commander in Chief of the Polish Navy) Gen. Casimir Gilarski (Commander, Training) plus  * Lech Kaczynski, the President of Poland * Maria Kaczynska, the first lady * Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile * Jerzy Szmajdzinski, Deputy speaker of Sejm (Polish Parliament) * Wladyslaw Stasiak, Minister of Internal Affairs and Administration * Aleksander Szczyglo, head of the National Security Bureau * Pawel Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland * Mariusz Handzlik, Undersectretary of State for International Affairs * Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs * General Franciszek Gagor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff * Andrzej Przewoznik, Secretary-General of Rada Ochrony Pamie;ci Walk i Me;czen'stwa * Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm * Przemyslaw Gosiewski, Deputy Prime Minister of Poland * Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm * Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman * Slawomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland * Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance * Bishop Tadeusz Ploski     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Tobias2702  From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 701 posts, RR: 0 Reply 90, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 20:51:41 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting AAEXP (Reply 86): Does the German government use Tupolev aircraft? No, they are using Challengers and 2 A310'a (which formerly belonged to the GDR leadership), but these will be replaced by new A319's and 2 ex-LH A340-300. Especially the Challenger jets have quite a long tech record, including some emergency landings with high-ranking politicans on board, so it's definitely worth modernizing the fleet.   PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ ukair  From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 91, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:00:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   If conditions were below minimums why did it try to land? I'm afraid this is looking like pilot error.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Navigator  From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 14 Reply 92, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:00:36 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting miszaqq (Reply 89): Remember that there were President and Polish Air Force Commander (Lt. Gen. Andrzej BLASIK) onboard, and apparently they were going late, as that crash happened at 8:56 and the ceremony they were heading to was due to start at 9:30. It was also their 4th approach to land at Smolensk airport, and my guess is that the pilot may have been simply ordered to land here and now, or beeing under so much pressure with all those onboard that he decided to try again and again. That is probably a fair guess, but in normal civil circumstances the Pilot in Command, (Flight Captain), is according to aviation rules and laws the only one allowed to make decisions concerning safety of the flight. This is the case no matter who is onboard, the Chief of Flight Operations or anybody else. The pilot in the flight plan stated as PIC = Pilot In Command is always in charge no matter what. The decisions of the PIC can never be overruled by anyone else onboard or on ground no matter what. But this was a military flight...   747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ osteogenesis  From Germany, joined May 2003, 647 posts, RR: 2 Reply 93, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:02:41 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Navigator (Reply 92): That is probably a fair guess, but in normal civil circumstances the Pilot in Command, (Flight Captain), is according to aviation rules and laws the only one allowed to make decisions concerning safety of the flight. This is the case no matter who is onboard, the Chief of Flight Operations or anybody else. The pilot in the flight plan stated as PIC = Pilot In Command is always in charge no matter what. The decisions of the PIC can never be overruled by anyone else onboard or on ground no matter what. I am not sure if this is always the case. What happens if Obama tells AF1 pilot to land somewhere. Can he refuse to do this? I am not sure if this law applies always and in all countries.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ mirrodie  From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7438 posts, RR: 62 Reply 94, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:06:47 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                 I heard the news this morning.  A very sad day for the Polish people, many of which I see and tend to everyday. My heart goes out to my polish friends and patients. May the lost rest in peace and the living be consoled.  -mirrodie [Edited 2010-04-10 06:08:35]   Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ JL418  From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6 Reply 95, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:06:59 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   My sympathy goes to Poland and all his people, in such a tragic - and cynic, if you think about it - moment. What lead half the government of Poland on the same airplane is beyond me anyway.May everybody rest in peace.     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Tobias2702  From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 701 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:07:13 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 93): What happens if Obama tells AF1 pilot to land somewhere. IIRC, the US President is also the head of the Armed Forces. Now idea how this is in case of the Polish Army. But obviously there were some high ranking generals on board.   PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ hugoandres1984  From Venezuela, joined Dec 2009, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 97, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:08:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   does anybody have the approach plate of that airport Posible CFIT [Edited 2010-04-10 06:16:50]     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Navigator  From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 14 Reply 98, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:17:30 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 93): I am not sure if this is always the case. What happens if Obama tells AF1 pilot to land somewhere. Can he refuse to do this? I am not sure if this law applies always and in all countries. Of course the pilot of AF 1 has the authority to rule out any order coming from Obama if it concerns safety. Anything else would be stupidity. The pilot has more knowledge about flying a plane and the safety of the plane than the President. However if it is within safetymargins, of course the pilot will do as the President says. And as you can understand, Obama being an educated and smart president he will of course always follow safety advices from his pilots.... I think you get the going here... [Edited 2010-04-10 06:22:34]   747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ bjorn14  From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3299 posts, RR: 2 Reply 99, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:43:47 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting FlySSC (Reply 60): In 1994 the President Juvenal Habvarimana of Rwanda and President Cyprian Ntayamira of Burundi were on board the same aircraft that crashed near Kigali Airport. Not sure you can count this one as a "plane crash" It was shot down by some kind of land to air device as they were taking off. This what ignited the Rwandan genocide spree. May G-d comfort everyone in their time of loss.   "I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ WROORD  From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 928 posts, RR: 0 Reply 100, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:47:42 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Some media are reporting that due to bad weather the plan must have hit the trees and burst into a fireball.       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ kubus  From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 180 posts, RR: 1 Reply 101, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 22:04:54 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Black Box was found according to InterFax (around 6:30A EST). The TU154M had 5004 hours and 1823 landings. Went through D-Check (major tear down) in Dec'09 and since had 50 landing and 124 hours. It was certified for another 25 years of service. Of note, the YAK-40 that supposed to take the press to Smolensk, had mechanical problem and the flight was switched to another YAK-40. Polish Gov't has 1 154M left (in D-Check as well), 4 YAK-40s, 3 M-28 Bryza, 6 Mi-8's, 5 Sokol (polish made chopper) and 1 Bell-412.

 

 

 

 

 

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http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/92280591.jpg

 

Najpierw była wpadka. Autentyczne wiadomości. Właściwa narracja (opowieść Smoleńska) zaczęła się z 40 minutowym opóźnieniem pod "Batutą": RIA Novosti, Reuters i Associated Press.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/04/12/poland-plane-crash-warsaw.html#socialcomments#ixzz0kvjnSqCa
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2010/04/12/poland-plane-crash-warsaw.html#socialcomments#ixzz0kvjnSqCa
Pilot in Polish crash may be to blame: officials
Week of mourning begins for victims killed en route to Katyn memorial
Last Updated: Monday, April 12, 2010 | 11:26 PM ET 
CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2010/04/10/poland-government-plane-crash.html
2010/04/10
at 2:47 PM ET
Why on earth did it take so long for this website (CBC N E W S) to post this story? I already read all about it on BBC, NY Times, Yahoo News, Google News, and..... Radio-Canada's website. Yes, the CBC's french-language website. This is shameful. 

List z Kanady
The accident occurred at 7 GMT. The story was posted here at 8h40 Easter

 

 

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/90386750.jpg

 

Profesjonalista w dokumentacji  o Katastrofie Lotniczej pod Smoleńskiem podjął i zabezpieczył w Stanach Zjednoczonych w GRUDNIU 2011 ROKU w roku SCREEN z portalu lotniczego

 

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/121103/

 

 

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I'm Sailing By ROD STEWART

 

I’m „S”

 

Opublikowany 19 paź 2012

Uploaded By Ruchira Soysa

I am sailing, I am sailing,
Home again cross the sea.
I am sailing, stormy waters,
To be near you, to be free.

I am flying, I am flying,
Like a bird cross the sky.
I am flying, passing high clouds,
To be with you, to be free.

Can you hear me, can you hear me
Thro the dark night, far away,
I am dying, forever trying,
To be with you, who can say.

Can you hear me, can you hear me,
Thro the dark night far away.
I am dying, forever trying,
To be with you, who can say.

We are sailing, we are sailing,
Home again cross the sea.
We are sailing stormy waters,
To be near you, to be free.

Oh lord, to be near you, to be free.
Oh lord, to be near you, to be free,
Oh lord.

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Copy-paste this in top bar in Google (Web):

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You'll see forum "Polish AF Tu-154 Crash In Smolensk" , with list of 401 replies.

Except of first post - start of topic (below in green) (remember "David"?

I could never understand why "David's" edit time was 3 hours earlier than time of post...)

...except for "David's" post,  first 62 replies are dated Apr.9.  (we need to add 11 hours to get Moscow time)

 

 

There is another page - it's same, only all those replies are "open" already

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/121103/1

same replies show adjusted time (+6 hours)

 

I marked my remarks below in yellow.

 

david_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 6733 posts, RR: 18 Posted Sat Apr 10 2010 03:38:52 your local time (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

 

 

Reply #1

LOT767SP-LPA  From Poland, joined May 2002, 144 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:42:16 your local time (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

87 dead   very sad day for poland

 

Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2846 posts, RR: 39 Reply 8, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 21:58:21 your local time (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

http://gazeta.ru/news/lastnews/2010/04/10/n_1481368.shtml Press is mentioning that Polish teams say the aircraft crashed on approach, right on final it hit a tree and then went on fire by the time it hit the runway. Doesn't seem good. But media can be wrong as usual.Let's hope

 

Viper911  From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 201 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 22:06:24 your local time (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Israeli Media is stating that the aircraft crashed about 1.5km short of the runway, the aircraft in question is indeed a Polish TU-154

vs same post shows on another page as Apr.10 4:06:24, i.e. + 6 hours

 

Reply 30 - About "SW material" at 9:30 Moscow Time ! 

CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5458 posts, RR: 5 Reply 30, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 22:32:58 your local time (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Danish Tv-2 News is currently showing pictures from Polish TV, who apparently has found a camera crew who are at the scene. Plenty of debris spread around, with nothing immediately recognisable apart from the tail which has apparently survived in one piece. A couple of small fires are being put out by the firefighters who are on the scene. Not sure if it's due to the fires, but it does appear to be a bit foggy.

 

Reply 51 (Last of Apr.9 date here) - 10:21 Moscow time BBC already had that alleged SW video, with no sound  

BeakerLTN  From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 236 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 23:20:51 your local time (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

BBC news now updated with video of crash site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm

tonymctigue  From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1448 posts, RR: 10 Reply 63, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 00:01:38 your local time (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

May they all Rest in Piece.

 

 

 

This is why I think it's in California time:

 

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Polish AF Tu-154 Crash In Smolensk

USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP MEMBERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT david_itl  From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7339 posts, RR: 14 Posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:38:52 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:             BBC has breaking news that plane with the Polish President has crashed on approach to Smolensk. And a brief story has now been put up but I expect will be updated with the tragic news. [Edited 2010-04-10 00:45:02]

 

 

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/121103/

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm

 

Page last updated at 19:17 GMT, Saturday, 10 April 2010 20:17 UK E-mail this to a friend Printable version

 

Polish President Lech Kaczynski dies in plane crash

 

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Change Forum... Civil Aviation Travel, Polls & Prefs Tech/Ops Aviation Hobby Aviation Photography Photography Feedback Trip Reports Military Av & Space Non-Aviation Site Related LIVE Chat My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search    Polish AF Tu-154 Crash In Smolensk     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP MEMBERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT david_itl  From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7339 posts, RR: 14 Posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:38:52 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:             BBC has breaking news that plane with the Polish President has crashed on approach to Smolensk. And a brief story has now been put up but I expect will be updated with the tragic news. [Edited 2010-04-10 00:45:02]   More Sharing Services     401 replies: All unread, showing first 25:       USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ LOT767SP-LPA  From Poland, joined May 2002, 156 posts, RR: 1  Reply 1, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:42:16 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     87 dead   very sad day for poland      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ N14AZ  From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2618 posts, RR: 25  Reply 2, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:49:41 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Oh my God.... What type of airplane did he use?        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5922 posts, RR: 3  Reply 3, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:49:46 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Would this have been a chartered LOT plane, or does the Polish Air Force still have their Tu154?      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27  Reply 4, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:50:30 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Hardly any details out yet. I hope it's not going to get worse   RIP to the victims! Aeroflot777        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27  Reply 5, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:54:02 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Russian media reporting the TU-154 went down on landing into Smolensk. President was confirmed on board, and no survivors are found.Everyone perished.   Aeroflot777      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ f.pier  From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 10  Reply 6, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:55:38 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     RIP. Very sad news. What type of aircraft was it?        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Tobseren  From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 40 posts, RR: 0  Reply 7, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:56:53 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3): Would this have been a chartered LOT plane, or does the Polish Air Force still have their Tu154? I think it is the Tu-154, the last picture taken of the Polish Tupolev on airliners.net is from 25th of March 2010. Sad situation, RIP.      Flown on: A300, A320, A321, ATR42, ATR72, B733, B738, E170, MD82, Saab 340   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Aeroflot777  From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27  Reply 8, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:58:21 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     http://gazeta.ru/news/lastnews/2010/04/10/n_1481368.shtml Press is mentioning that Polish teams say the aircraft crashed on approach, right on final it hit a tree and then went on fire by the time it hit the runway. Doesn't seem good. But media can be wrong as usual.Let's hope.        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2  Reply 9, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:59:28 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     It was a Tu 154M like this: View Large View Medium Photo © Rafael Nunes The President of Poland with his wife and many officials on board.RIP [Edited 2010-04-10 01:03:11]      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ LTU932  From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50  Reply 10, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 09:59:46 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     No information on the aircraft. I just tuned in to N24 but no information so far except for the breaking news ticker. Any additional information available says that 84 people died in the crash, including Lech Kaczynski and his wife. Unless he always travels with a big staff, my guess is that the aircraft was civilian. EDIT: N24 is now presuming that it was indeed the Presidential Tu-154. They also say that the landing was apparently in the fog. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:02:58] [Edited 2010-04-10 01:03:35]        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ MadameConcorde  From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10760 posts, RR: 38  Reply 11, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:01:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     "MOSCOW (BNO NEWS) -- Reports say a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed at Smolensk Airport in Russia's Smolensk Oblast.  http://wireupdate.com/wires/2914/bno-eu-int-bulletin-11/" Polish President Lech Kaczynski 'in plane crash' Russia map A plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed near a Russian airport, officials say. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8612825.stm Unconfirmed but apparently the President is dead among at least 80 others RIP Mr President and all those who died in the crash.        There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ FlySSC  From France, joined Aug 2003, 7382 posts, RR: 57  Reply 12, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:02:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting N14AZ (Reply 2): What type of airplane did he use? If at least 87 people were on board, it can't be the Yak-40. so I guess it's probably a Tu-154. Just reported on the news by the Polish Authorities : No survivors. The President of Poland and several Polish Officials and families were on board. Mr Kaczynski was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet troops killed thousands of Poles. The plane hit trees on approach, crashed and caught fire. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:05:46]        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ oa260  From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26665 posts, RR: 58  Reply 13, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:02:56 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Aircraft was trying to land in heavy fog , President was on his way to attend a memorial service for Polish troops.      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2  Reply 14, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:04:27 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting oa260 (Reply 13): Aircraft was trying to land in heavy fog , President was on his way to attend a memorial service for Polish troops. It was 70th anniversary of Katyn masacre, hence many other officials were with him.        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ CPH-R  From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5922 posts, RR: 3  Reply 15, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:04:50 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     A very sad day indeed, RIP to all the victims        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Viper911  From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0  Reply 16, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:06:24 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Israeli Media is stating that the aircraft crashed about 1.5km short of the runway, the aircraft in question is indeed a Polish TU-154        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ QatarA340  From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1784 posts, RR: 6  Reply 17, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:06:50 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     AlJazeera indicates that the Polish President and his wife has died in the crash!RIP Its his private Presidential Plane.      لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ f.pier  From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 10  Reply 18, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:06:58 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     I've just heard there were 132 pax onboard.        USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Danny  From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2  Reply 19, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:12:00 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 17): AlJazeera indicates that the Polish President and his wife has died in the crash! RIP Its his private Presidential Plane. It was a military plane used by officials, not his private one. Quoting f.pier (Reply 18): I've just heard there were 132 pax onboard. This aircraft only had 87 seats. [Edited 2010-04-10 01:29:43]      USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ BritishWorld  From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0  Reply 20, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:12:01 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Regrettably, Sky News is also now reporting that the President was indeed killed in the crash. Deeply shocking news; it is a terrible day for any nation when it loses its leader.      "sic itur ad astra."     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ EBGARN  From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 222 posts, RR: 0  Reply 21, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:13:24 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Swedish media is reporting that also the head of the Polish central bank, the head of the Polish army, and the deputy foreign minister were on board. A very sad day indeed!      A306,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/6,A380,B717,B727,B737,B744,B752/3,B763,B772/3/W,C-130,AN26,CRJ900,Il62,DC-8/9/10,MD80's,BaeR   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Fauzi  From Brunei, joined Jul 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0  Reply 22, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:13:35 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     Yeah I just heard that too, but nothing official on CNN yet... Hope everything is alright    Any idea what went wrong?      BI - The Asian Underdog     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ AndrewUber  From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41  Reply 23, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:14:26 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                     MSNBC is reporting 132 were aboard - 87 dead - no survivors...... Obviously still a lot of confusion at this point.  Russian news agencies reported at least 87 people died in the crash near Smolensk airport in western Russia, citing the Russian Emergencies Ministry. They reported 132 people were aboard the Tupolev Tu-154.  Polish state news agency PAP said there were no survivors.  People often post what they see in the media, and we all know the media doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to aviation. RIP to all aboard, what a sad day for Poland.  View Large View Medium Photo © Thomas Brackx [Edited 2010-04-10 01:35:36]      I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE   USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ kiwiandrew  From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8503 posts, RR: 14  Reply 24, posted Sat Apr 10 2010 10:14:26 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Danny (Reply 19): It was a military plane used by officials In that case isn't this thread in the wrong forum ? In any case , even though it is in the wrong forum this is very sad news .Sympathies to the people of Poland . [Edited 2010-04-10 01:15:38]      Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)     USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _ Viper911  From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:18:17 your local time (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:                   Quoting Fauzi (Reply 22): Any idea what went wrong? Israeli media states that there was a heavy fog in the area, someone can confirm that? a very sad day indeed       26 airtechy : Google Earth shows two airports nearby..neither of which appear to have precision landing devices...ie ILS structures.Maybe they were making a non-pr

 

 

27 CPH-R : I think the general interest in the civilian aspect of this crash warrants that it stays here. Especially since it looks like a good chunk of the Pol

 

28 BritishWorld : Quite true - and further to my post about Sky News' reporting of the President's "confirmed" death, I should just clarify that that assertion is comi

 

29 Christopherwoo : Just heard from my polish friend all passengers were officials, the top 80 in the country including popes and diplomats....bad day

 

30 CPH-R : Danish Tv-2 News is currently showing pictures from Polish TV, who apparently has found a camera crew who are at the scene.Plenty of debris spread ar

 

31 Andrej : Al Jazeera (ENG) just showed latest images. The crash site is in woods, the weather seemed foggy, and it does look indeed like Tu-154.Really sad news

 

32 EDICHC : Truly shocking news...condolences to all Polish A-netters. A terrible human tragedy, but by the sounds of it there will be a huge political void in Po

 

33 MadameConcorde : Why did they put them all on one plane is one thing I can't understand. My deep respect goes to the people and the Nation of Poland.

 

34  FlySSC : f.pier is right.132 are now confirmed dead including the President.

 

35  AAEXP : "popes" ......As far as I know, there is only one Pope

 

36 keesje : "A Polish government official said the head of the Polish army and the head of the presidential administration were also on board the plane, along wit

 

37 oa260 : We must be careful with the figures nothing confirmed and conflicting reports according to Sky News, so figures not exact yet.

 

38 FlySSC : Reuters is also now talking about 132 dead ... but you are right. We must be careful. Some journalists are already reporting the plane crashed during

 

39 milan320 : Read in a Polish newspaper that the plane was on approach, but due to heavy fog, declared missed approach and proceeded with the go-around.Whilst tur

 

40  oa260 : I wonder if it was this one I photographed on my last trip to WAW. .

 

41 mxp : This is indeed a horrible news Rip to alll and condolances to the families Alberto

 

42 acabgd : I don't know why you "guess" it was 40 years old?It was produced in 1990, delivered July 1990.

 

43 acabgd : If the registration is 101 (can't really see on this photo) then - yes, that's the one.

 

44 JoKeR : Serbian TV as well as the BBC confirm that the aircraft was instructed to divert to Moscow due to poor visibility but that the pilot elected to go ahe

 

45 Danny : The spokeperson for Polish Foreign Affair Ministy has just confIrmed that there were 88 names on the passenger's list.

 

46  OV735 : Horrible news. Sad day in Poland today. It is tragic and ironic that a disaster like this struck when the delegation was going to commemorate the even

 

47 SOBHI51 : Question. If you are flying the president of a country, who does have the final word, the captain or the president, to divert or not?

 

48  FatmirJusufi : Sad news. RIP to all Preliminary accident description http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20100410-0 Fatmir

 

49  j0rdan : Terrible news, very sad day in Poland. Heres a news link for anybody intrested. (with video) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm] RIP jordan

 

50 Aleksandar : Bad news and a sad day for Poland.May the victims rest in peace

 

51  BeakerLTN : BBC news now updated with video of crash site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm

 

 

52 GothamSpotter : They also used 102 for the president. Smolensk has both an airport and an air base. The airport (LNX) runway seems to be too short for a Tu-154 (5500

 

53  FlySSC : It seems to be 101

 

54 acabgd : The plane was landing at Smolensk-North, ICAO designator XUBS. Smolensk-South (IATA: LNX) is a very small airport with a short runway (1600m / 5249ft

 

55 Aleksandar : My guess is that the pilot has a final word.At least, he's the one with all responsibilities

 

56 Gdabski : 102 is undergoing maintainence/overhaul in Moscow.

 

57 slz396 : Very sad and easily avoidable accident... Is it the first time a head of state is killed in a plane crash?Does Poland have a Vice-President, or who's

 

58 Viper911 : According to Wikipedia its Bronisław Komorowski, in don't know if its official or not, plus i don't dent to trust Wikipedia so much..

 

59 BlueSky1976 : Bronislaw Komorowski is the speaker of the Parlament house, who becomes acting president in case of elected president's death.Also, apparently all Po

 

60 FlySSC : No. In 1994 the President Juvenal Habvarimana of Rwanda and President Cyprian Ntayamira of Burundi were on board the same aircraft that crashed near

 

61 slz396 : He's just acting President, since he's the Speaker of the House.Apparently, there's no VP in Poland.

 

62  slz396 : How could I have forgotten about that one! In a former Belgian colony... leading to the mass killing of over a million people and a huge scandal in m

 

63 tonymctigue : May they all Rest in Piece.

 

64  MadameConcorde : List of those on board. http://www.polskieradio.pl/wiadomosci/kraj/artykul153440.html (all in Polish) R.I.P.

 

65 FlySSC : Several sources are stil mentioning 132 dead... The InterFax agency is reporting that the Russian authorities proposed to the crew to divert to Minsk

 

66 Tobias2702 : If my counting is correct, there are 98 names on the pax manifest.

 

67 SOBHI51 : Will also add: President Abdul Salam Arif of Iraq died in a helicopter crash in 1966.

 

68 CPH-R : As I understand it, the role of the Polish President is largely ceremonial. The position is 'merely' that of head of state, whereas the real day to d

 

69 milan320 : Don't shoot the messenger, just rehashing what I read in the newspaper. Maybe the meant AC type is 40 years old. Not sure.

 

70 acabgd : Sorry, you said "I guess the plane is 40 years old" and I just asked "Why guess"? The type might be as old as you want it to be, it's the maintenance

 

71 BlueSky1976 : Both Tu-154Ms have been delivered in late 1980s (1989 IIRC), so they were not really that old. I'd say they were on par with most of government VIP a

 

 

73 jayeshrulz : May the President and pilots,and all of the occupants Rest in Peace.

 

74 morvious : People died and all we care is why this post has been mooved. R.I.P. to all who died and my condolences to families and friends.

 

75 Aesma : Probably no ILS. Can a TU-154M sport a HUD ? One Catholic Pope, sure, but there are others. Although here he probably meant priests.Yeah, the TU-154

 

76 acabgd : Heh... If a plane crashes in the US would you go and say "Just as happpened in 1990s and 1980s and 1970s and....??The two LOT crashes were back in d

 

 

77 Aesma : One black box recovered, according to Agence France Presse.

 

78 bigphilnyc : Condolences to all Polish peopel and our aviation friends.What a horrible disaster.

 

79 Aesma : AFP also reports more victims, unfortunately : 96 total, including 88 members of the delegation, and I guess 8 crew.

 

80 Revelation : I'm so sorry to hear about this. Poland is a great partner of the EU and in NATO. And is working hard to improve relations with Russia. One article me

 

81 tom355uk : I dont think so, but even a HUD is pretty useless without any form of vertical guidance. The best weather report I have seen states a visibility of a

 

82 aerdingus : This is just terrible. Condolences to the Polish community. Hope they find out the cause soon. Just watching the Euronews coverage of the crash, and a

 

83 osteogenesis : Bild Online is reporting that the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk refused to fly the Tupolev planes of the Polish Air Force.After this happened may

 

84 Navigator : I agree with you. Many civil airlines only allow pilots a specific number of tries before going to alternate airport.Without jumping to conclusions

 

85 osteogenesis : Some news agencies are speculating that the pilot was instructed to try it so that they did not miss the very important commemoration event.

 

86 AAEXP : Does the German government use Tupolev aircraft?

 

87  Aesma : Video of the crash site : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMwhZtlQ2hY You can stop at 43", after that it rewinds.The woman seems to be reading names o

 

88 OV735 : When Donald Tusk visited Tallinn, he flew on a Yak-40. I don't see why he would refuse to fly on a much more modern Tupolev, if he was fine with the

 

89 miszaqq : Just to clarify some things, on the official passanger list there were 89 names (but one person never get on board the aircraft, so there were 88 peo

 

90 Tobias2702 : No, they are using Challengers and 2 A310'a (which formerly belonged to the GDR leadership), but these will be replaced by new A319's and 2 ex-LH A34

 

91 ukair : If conditions were below minimums why did it try to land?I'm afraid this is looking like pilot error.

 

92 Navigator : That is probably a fair guess, but in normal civil circumstances the Pilot in Command, (Flight Captain), is according to aviation rules and laws the

 

93 osteogenesis : I am not sure if this is always the case. What happens if Obama tells AF1 pilot to land somewhere. Can he refuse to do this? I am not sure if this la

 

94 mirrodie : I heard the news this morning. A very sad day for the Polish people, many of which I see and tend to everyday.My heart goes out to my polish friends

 

95 JL418 : My sympathy goes to Poland and all his people, in such a tragic - and cynic, if you think about it - moment.What lead half the government of Poland o

 

96 Tobias2702 : IIRC, the US President is also the head of the Armed Forces. Now idea how this is in case of the Polish Army.But obviously there were some high rank

 

97 hugoandres1984 : does anybody have the approach plate of that airport Posible CFIT[Edited 2010-04-10 06:16:50]

 

98 Navigator : Of course the pilot of AF 1 has the authority to rule out any order coming from Obama if it concerns safety.Anything else would be stupidity. The pi

 

99 bjorn14 : Not sure you can count this one as a "plane crash" It was shot down by some kind of land to air device as they were taking off.This what ignited the

 

100 WROORD : Some media are reporting that due to bad weather the plan must have hit the trees and burst into a fireball.

 

101 kubus : Black Box was found according to InterFax (around 6:30A EST). The TU154M had 5004 hours and 1823 landings. Went through D-Check (major tear down) in D

 

 

102  F9Animal : If this is the case, it was obviously a tragic mistake. I am deeply saddened for the people of Poland, and I send my deepest condolences.Damn, I wis

 

103 Viper911 : IIRC, there is no ILS in both airports of Smolensk.

 

104 LTU932 : I just looked it up. The President of Poland is the commander in chief of the Polish Armed Forces, so he would thus be the head of the Armed Forces.

 

105 LTU932 : If that is so, then they should have diverted somewhere else. It would be irresponsible to land in the fog visually.

 

106 zeke : Military airports normally have the capability for talking pilots down on what is known as a precision radar approach (PAR), and military pilots are

 

107 BlueSky1976 : CNN London is covering the event as a breaking story and I would like to make some corrections to the wrong report made by Richard Quest: - both Tu-15

 

108  miszaqq : according to the picture of the passanger list published in one of polish portals/newspapers gazeta.pl it was TU-154M/101 it was late departure from w

 

109 uzzzer : They could have pushed the limits, considering the political circumstances. Polish president's rival - the prime minister Tusk was just in Katyn by Sm

 

110 oldeuropean : I don't know if this is true, but it is said that, after the instruction to divert, the pilots answered that Kaczynski has insisted: "The Polish pres

 

111 AustrianZRH : Just read that in 2008 there was an incident when an Polish Air Force pilot refused to land in Tbilisi, Georgia due to safety concerns and diverted,

 

112 Starlionblue : Old aircraft are only a problem if badly maintained and badly flown. Conversely, a determined flight crew can crash a brand new FBW airliner.The Capt

 

113 acabgd : That's a fine plane that I would fly on any day. Well maintained, low cycles, passed D-Check and had a nice time after it confirming everything was o

 

114 cysafan : This is exactly a same aircraft that crashed... Polish Air Force VIP fleet consists of just ONE Tupolev-154M...

 

115 Flighty : What a shock and a tragedy for Poland.RIP.

 

116 RayChuang : Has anyone mentioned just what was the level of visibility at Smolensk airport? Without ICAO Catagory II and III ILS at that airport, landing in fog w

 

117 braynfeeble : I'm sorry to hear about this tragedy.WYRAZY SZCZEREGO ŻALU I WSPÓŁCZUCIA Z POWODU ŚMIERCI KACZYNSKI.

 

118 OV735 : Interesting to find out how new the jet actually was. Most commercially operated aircraft will reach 1800 cycles in a year or two.This crash reminds

 

119  cysafan : You all should know that the Tupolev-154 got a bad reputation of huge number of tragedies by non-pilot error...They are beautiful to look at and they

 

120 ipodguy7 : My prayers go out to Poland in this time of unimaginable pain.God Bless Poland!

 

121 pylon101 : It is not the civil airport of Smolensk. It's a big military base with dozens of IL-76. Some time ago military allowed to land there.But they raised

 

122  cysafan : If you all wanted to know why this plane has crashed... You should see this video... A huge number of problems on the list for Polish Air Force Plane

 

123 doug_Or : In landing configuration GPWS would probably not have gone off

 

124 CodyKDiamond : My condolences to all aboard, their families, and their friends.This is a terrible loss and a major tragedy.

 

125 OV735 : I think you're confusing it with some other aircraft type. The Tu-154 has a rather good safety record among airliners of it's generation.When compar

 

126 Danny : Actually it consists of two Tu-154M number 101 (that crashed) and 102.

 

 

127 Macsog6 : I just saw the news reports of this tragic accident. Seeing as the aircraft was on the way to a ceremony of rememberance for the 70th anniversary of t

 

128 cysafan : No.. I am not. My grandfather almost got killed when a Tupolev 154 of CAAC lost engine thrust so sudden but it managed to return back to the airport.

 

129 PillowTester : All the information we have so far points to the probability of pilot error and not the aircraft itself.

 

130 pylon101 : Since 1972 about 1,000 frames produced. 66 lost for various reasons. It's about the same proportion compared to B-727 or DC-9/MD-80 or any other aircr

 

131 billreid : Dutch press reporting that the acft did 4 attempts at landing. yes 4 missed landings due to very poor visibility problems.ATC had ordered the acft to

 

132  Flighty : According to this article, http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/10/poland.plane/ The Tu-154M in this crash received a major overhaul (including

 

133  SOBHI51 : Not really. I remember back in early 70's Egyptair aquirred few of those planes, pilots were not happy with them so TU sent there chief pilot to show

 

134 RAFVC10 : My condolences to all the Polish members of A.net and the citizens of Poland. Has anyone when was built this airframe? Is very strange to see nowadays

 

135 MedAv : The Polish quotes in some of the media articles seem to be blaming the plane, bemoaning how they should've replace the fleet.It's obviously early to

 

136 BA84 : I find the comments regarding the pilot having the final word on landing rather naive. This was not an airline captain. This was an air force plane.T

 

137 OV735 : I'm happy for your grandfather and that he got out of the trouble, but with all due respect, you cannot call an aircraft type unsafe based on just on

 

138 Bolek : Tragic day for Poland indeed. My condolences go to that fine country. Some Czech experts have claimed that one possible explanation could be 'unit con

 

139 OV735 : Again, you can't judge a plane's safety record just by one incident. I have no information regarding the cause of the Egypt Air crash, and it might i

 

140 OV735 : I strongly doubt that. Pilots, even air force ones, do a complete and thorough briefing before each flight, to familiarize themselves with the proced

 

141 acabgd : This is such a widely known fact that any half-educated private pilot will pay double attention to metric/feet conversion when flying over Russia.No

 

142 Kaiarahi : Read this thread. And your source is?

 

143 ferengi80 : My heart goes out to all people affected by this tragic accident. The people of Poland have lost a great man. RIP Mr. President.

 

144 BA84 : Further to my comment in Reply 136: In civil aviation, the captain is omnipotent. In military aviation, the pilot's command decisions are directly rel

 

145 L410Turbolet : My deepest conolences to our Polish brothers. It's a tragic irony that Poland loses its political and especially military elite once again in the wood

 

146 BW424 : Very tragic day. My condolences to all the famalies of those that died, as well as all Polish posters on this forum.

 

147  David L : This fallacy comes up here so often that a couple of years ago I compiled a list of Tu-154 accidents and their primary causes.It was very difficult

 

148 wjcandee : It's going to be the Ron Brown thing all over again.

 

149 SyeaphanR : I'm curious... Given the kind of base this was, didn't they have the ability to do an old-fashioned PAR "Talk-Down"?I would have thought it appropria

 

150 FlySSC : Back to the Aviation subject : It seems finally true that the crew did 3 attempt to land and crashed during the fourth one.I doubt a "standard" crew

 

151 BA84 : Most members won't understand this reference.BA84

 

 

152 Aesma : This president (and his brother) was not really a great partner of the EU, to say the least. Of NATO and the US, sure. I'm not saying I wished him an

 

153  oneworld77 : Re the reliability - below from the bbc.co.uk/news website (with fair use) is an interesting article; Crash focusses attention on Tupolev-154 About 1,

 

154 413X3 : what???

 

155 JJJ : Also Francisco Sá Carneiro, prime minister of Portugal was killed in a small aircraft crash back in 1980.OPO is named after him.

 

156 TommyBP251b : As sad as the tragedy is, this crash will help to prevent future crashes. If it is really true that both Belarus and Russian ATC advised a diversion

 

157 MrSkyGuy : I think that's going to be difficult given that it's a pure-military airfield. I just checked my Jeppesen charts and came up dry.I loaded up a nav d

 

158 FN1001 : If I remember well, NATO planes have no blackbox, so it will not be very difficult to blame the pilots, what in some media allready is comming as a r

 

159 irobertson : Did you watch this?? There was nothing in this report that indicated the aircraft was unfit for flight.All of the incidents were non-mechanical. Thi

 

160  FlySSC : According to vaious sources, at least one of the two "black box" has been recovered : http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115099 http://www.itar

 

161 FN1001 : Thank you for correcting.I hope the truth will come out soon!

 

162  OV735 : The Tu-154 is equipped both with a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data recorder. I hope data can be extracted from both, so that the cause (not

 

163 Danny : # Both blackboxes have been recovered # The body of the President has been found and identified # Polish and Russian Prime Ministers Tusk and Putin m

 

164 SOBHI51 : I was just saying facts.Was not trying to put down the TU154

 

165 MCOflyer : May all those who died RIP. I hope this not destroy the Tu154's reputation. She is a very pretty a/c. Hunter

 

166 DocLightning : CNN is reporting that both of these devices have been found and that authorities have already started examining their contents.

 

167 3MilesToWRO : Looking at what is left of the plane it seems the impact was very violent. There was not much fire, as far as I understand, but the remains are surpri

 

168 AirPacific747 : This is always the case. Yes. The PIC can refuse this and definitely should if he/she thinks it is not safe to do whatever they are asked to do.[Edit

 

169 3MilesToWRO : "What? You can't land?And you call yourself a soldier? Chicken!"

 

170 Danny : A civilian PIC follows procedure and can refuse to land.A military one follows orders.

 

171 Flighty : It's a slightly hard legal question. You would have to be insane to order the pilot to land unsafely. Even if you could, that's the last thing you wo

 

172 dc9northwest : In this case, I suggest the next Polish president use an airline (charter) rather than the Air Force.If Kaczynski would've done that, he would've li

 

173 sovietjet : All Russian airbases have RSBN which as far as I know can be used to land in bad weather. Correct me if I'm wrong. The problem however is that Tu-154

 

174 AirPacific747 : No I don't believe so. Not if it compromises safety for everyone on board and people on the ground. Exactly. As said by others - as a civilian PIC, n

 

175 3MilesToWRO : The point is it'd be probably easier to reject clear order than stand general pressure "you need to land because they already ring the bells in the c

 

176 dc9northwest : Is it? I don't know, I've never been in the military and generally dislike all "orders", so I suppose this is right for someone like me, but for an A

 

 

177 lemang : W polskiej telewizji powiedzieli (oko%u0142o 12:00), %u017Ce nie wynosi%u0142a 4 aproaches, ale samolot dokonane 4 ko%u0142a na lotnisku przed (jedyna

 

178 SOBHI51 : Did anybody understand the above?Sorry but what village?

 

179  borism : found great article about it "Medal for the pilot, who was not afraid of Lech Kaczynski" http://wyborcza.pl/1,76842,5705983,M...echa_Kaczynskiego_sie

 

180 Speedbird128 : Ummmm. Was that not 1986?I am nearly 100% certain it couldn't have been 2008...

 

181 acabgd : Oh, come on now. They "focuss" [sic!] on the Tu-154 citing two incidents which had nothing to do with the plane itself and everything to do with the

 

182  wjcandee : US Air Force VIP Flight carrying commerce secretary Ron Brown and very high ranking US business leaders crashes while on approach to Eastern European

 

183 dstefanc : W polskiej telewizji powiedzieli (oko%u0142o 12:00), %u017Ce nie wynosi%u0142a 4 aproaches, ale samolot dokonane 4 ko%u0142a na lotnisku przed (jedyna

 

184  dstefanc : I came across this on rmf.fm's website (Polish radio). It is a video shot by a polish reporter moments after the accident.This immediately takes me b

 

185 acabgd : It was Dubrovnik (LDDU, DBV) and I don't want to go too far OT here, but I still wonder what went on with that flight.I flew to DBV God knows how ma

 

186 CharlieNoble : My guess is that it probably didn't come down to a clear cut "Land this plane or else." Absent a direct order, the pilot probably felt immense pressu

 

187 PillowTester : This disaster would have ended up exactly the same way if it were a 787. Please, for the love of god, stop fixating on the Tu-154 itself just because

 

188 SOBHI51 : Sorry but when an airliner refuses to fly a plane due to safety issues then that is a fact.

 

189 Starlionblue : As already mentioned above, did you even watch the video? Those problems have nothing to do with the plane. Turbulence for example is hardly the plan

 

190 zeke : I thought only around 10 or so RSBN transmitters (russian TACAN) were left in Riussia ? Does Poland still use RSBN ? I thought most of their aircraft

 

191 emair : It wasn't a really smart move of the Polish Government by putting all these important people in only one plane.When many government people are travel

 

192 Starlionblue : My thoughts exactly. Even in many large corporations, all or large parts senior management cannot travel together, whether it be aircraft, bus or tra

 

193  yyzala : Please point out "safety issues". The link you posted clearly indicates pilot error. Then with your logic no plane is safe.Very unfortunate accident

 

194  Devilfish : Prayers to all, and may they rest in peace. Not to knock the Tu-154, but there had been on and off talks (even here on A.net) of acquiring a BBJ as Po

 

195  aaresl : One polish blogger has a very negative opinion on the financing and maintenance of the Polish Air Force 1 http://dziennik3rp.blogspot.com/2010...-samo

 

196  micreaux : Interesting article from the Daily Beast on the topic. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...nd-killed/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsR1

 

197 Starlionblue : That Daily Beast article is pure sensationalism with little regard to fact. For example: (I remember landing at Moscow in a 154 in the middle of a bli

 

198 MrSkyGuy : Interesting you mention that--this was my first impression as well. I'm not a government employee, but even my company has restrictions regarding the

 

199  stasisLAX : The Polish government and the National Bank of Poland, in a “rare moment of unity,” agree to weaken Poland’s currency, the zloty, in an act tha

 

200 Danny : First of all it wasn't a government's move. It is important to distinguish between the President and the Government led by Prime Minister (who is the

 

201 Aeroflot001 : Within Poland what are the very 2 different roles between the President and the Prime Minister.Not just in Poland but also generally speaking.

 

 

202 rafaelyyz : In fact there are regulations in Poland pertaining to this but they were seldom respected, for reasons unknown.

 

203 Jana : Sorry for the victims and their families. Really. It strongly seems that the captain of the plane has indeed been stressed and forced to make the land

 

204 FN1001 : If we consider "%u0142" as a polish " Ł " (the L like in Lodz) and the "%u017C" as " Ż " (Z with a dot on the top) then the text looks a little bet

 

205 3MilesToWRO : As a matter of fact it's indeed a huge mess, but not a state catastrophy. A lot of functions will need new persons, but it's rather a case of lot of

 

206 rafaelyyz : That would be my interpretation. A Polish news article on gazeta.pl says they circled the airport 3 times before crashing.Apparently there was only

 

207 3MilesToWRO : It's probably accidental re-translation of something already translated to English. In general it seems to say that it wasn't 4th approach, but the a

 

208 Starlionblue : There are plenty of charters available.

 

209 3MilesToWRO : Man, you have no idea what was happening when prime minister took the Tu to fly to Brussels and it wasn't available for the president who wanted to f

 

210 AirPacific747 : Of course they do, but doing something you know is extremely dangerous but could easily be avoided just because you are following orders shows lack o

 

211 3MilesToWRO : I've found some reliably-looking information. According to Russian aviation officials until 2 km before airfield and 100 m altitude everything looked

 

212 cysafan : Report says that the Polish AF plane number 101 missed the good around approach and one of the wings or tail caught by some trees and slammed on the o

 

213 GDB : Terrible loss for Poland, coming only a couple of years after a crash of a Polish AF CASA transport killed many senior military officers.To relate it

 

214 Starlionblue : That may be, but at these levels there is no excuse for such poor planning (and that includes poor budgeting).Just from your comments it sounds like

 

215  scbriml : I saw 102 at the VARZ400 facility at Vnukovo last August. Is it still there? View Large View MediumPhoto © Steve Brimley

 

216  Aesma : Well, we know Egypt is quick to blame the plane even when all evidence point to the pilot/training/policies ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Airl

 

217 David L : I was puzzled at first and was going to comment. However, I think what the article is trying to do is point out why there might be suspicion of the 1

 

218  OP3000 : I had read this explanation a couple of hours ago: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEH644d2Iyeo&pos=1 Executive power und

 

219  Kaiarahi : Or it was written the way most web reports are with multiple reporters just adding bits on and next to no substantive editing.And what was the safet

 

220 Pihero : In all this excitement, we seem to forget the basic points of this accident. In itself, a crash in marginal visibility is - alas !- almost usual (When

 

221 Pihero : .... You really, but I mean REALLY need to revise your sources.France regime has not been called "presidential" for nothing.

 

222 oneworld77 : Actually, the BBC article I posted earlier comments on recent high profile issues that the late President had with this aircraft.Just as has happene

 

223 acabgd : If it turns out to be true, the following quote from another forum would make clear as to how bad the weather actually was: "Polish military sources a

 

224 AAEXP : When people use the expression "bad weather" should it not be "low/poor visibility" instead?Or was there any other weather issues at Smolensk?

 

225  moose135 : Pihero, Pihero, Pihero, your profile shows you have been a member here for 5 years. Haven't you learned by now - the facts, or lack thereof, have nev

 

226  LongHaul67 : I came across this video animation of the crash (from Norwegian Broadcast Corporation NRK) http://nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7074890

 

 

227  A342 : My knowledge of aviation in the former Soveit Union is much more limited than yours, but I think RSBN was also used in civilian aircraft.A good desc

 

228 Aesma : You can call it that, but it's not defined as such. Some call it "semi-presidential". I would call it "undetermined", it changes with each president

 

229 kubus : Given that both pilots, navigator and mechanic were military, and the head of Polish Air Force was also onboard, some could speculate that order was g

 

230 spacecadet : Fuel exhaustion. I haven't seen anybody bring up this possibility before. Your later comments about the engines not making noise support that.4 land

 

231  doug_Or : Warning would be issued for excessive sink rate or below glide slope conditions, but if the ILS was not tuned and the pilots were descending normally

 

232 SOBHI51 : How long is a flight from Warsaw to Smolensk?

 

233 doug_Or : Less than 500 miles, but it is unlikely they left with full tanks. Circling or conducting approaches (whichever it turns they were doing) at low alti

 

234 pilotaydin : As someone who does accident analysis, I haven't had much chance to see the images, but from what i gather, i can put together a hypothesis of what th

 

235 OV735 : In any case, the RA would have given the correct height readout, and if the bug was set correctly for the MDH, also give an aural and visual warning

 

236 SOBHI51 : I am sure the captain did know the weather conditions at destination. He must has taken enough fuel for either an diversion or a holding patern.

 

237 David L : Of course it's possible but if they were running short of fuel you'd expect them to mention it to ATC and, as far as I know, it hasn't been reported.

 

238 sovietjet : If there was no fuel left then shouldn't there have been no fire?

 

239 David L : There's a difference between "no fuel left" and "no usable fuel left. However, until there's some evidence to support it, I remain sceptical.

 

240 doug_Or : Is this the setup on the TU-154? I've only flown one a/c with this type of setup, and it had been deactivated.

 

241  flood : According to avherald, ATC and Polish authorities stated there was only one approach and subsequent crash."The air traffic controller at Smolensk Air

 

242 BuyantUkhaa : I would be very very interested in CVR readings, and wonder whether they'll be published in full if they support your hypothesis - which I agree seem

 

243 OV735 : By default the Tu-154 is equipped with the RV-5 radio altimeter, which functions like I described above.Then, looking at the cockpit photos, it seem

 

244 pylon101 : Following the developments on RUnet ( we used to call Russian Web-sites this way here) I am getting an impression that both Russian and Polish authori

 

245 3MilesToWRO : There's no suggestion of fuel starvation and the fact that someone reports not hearing the engines is not a sigificant clue.We all know, I suppose, t

 

246 WROORD : Maybe, but this time the President was not by himself but had a plane full of people (which I read does not happen very ofetn) so he had to be accoun

 

247 A342 : Weather radars aren't exactly new technology, all Tu-154s had one, and I'm pretty sure so do all Soviet jetliners and turboprops.I'm also quite sure

 

248 Danny : I am certainly not getting that impresion in Poland. The controller did not speak english indeed however polish military says that both pilots of the

 

249 Breiz : Latest summary on news channels (mainly based on Russian officials statements): - Fog, - Polish ac offered to divert but turned down, - Four landing a

 

250 Pihero : Wrong. The radio-altimeter is not used in a non-precision approach, mainly because the height reference at a distance of 2 Nm from the threshold - wh

 

251  giopan1975 : And this news bulletin reporting on plane's bad incident-full history I find ridiculous. 99,99% nothing wrong with the plane from the little facts th

 

 

252 konrad : I beg to differ with that one. The four landing attempts version seems to circulate around, yet it has not been confirmed.According to avherald and

 

253 Revelation : Based on the list in #89 I've quoted below, for us 'mercans, it'd be as if we lost the Vice President and his spouse, the entire Joint Chiefs of Staf

 

254 FLYAWA : What were the pre-flight weather observations at the destination prior to departure on such a short hop?Could weather have deteriorated so much, so q

 

255 acabgd : As mentioned previously, the Yak-40 carrying Polish journalists landed about 2 hours earlier, then the Russian Il-76 made an approach and decided to

 

256 WROORD : As far as it is widely said the President was not much of a drinker. This is a bit out of line in my opinion...especially considering the purpose of

 

257  FLYAWA : Wikipedia coverage provides interesting insights and possibilities for this incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

 

258  rafaelyyz : Polish TV reported that the aircraft first hit an antenna or some sort of approach light and then hit the trees.This is also indicated in the follow

 

259  rafaelyyz : Interesting animation, albeit maybe speculative, can be found on this page: (video, mid-way down): http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomos...,Piloci_zdec

 

260  Danny : They flew from Warsaw to Smolensk. That is a rather short distance, very very below the Tu-154s range Large version here: http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/

 

261 cysafan : The Polish AF plane should have been fitted with fly-by-wire which can minimise or even prevented that pilot error and things will not be like today..

 

262  cysafan : OMG!! That is really a baby can't cry over a spilled milk!! Majority of the politicians and VIPs are DEAD!!! OMG!! They have lost one whole majority

 

263 3MilesToWRO : Whoa, whoa, cysafan. It's not a mojority of politicians. It's a lot of politicians but by far not even a significant fraction, not to mention majority

 

264 bjorn14 : I had earlier reports that the Russians spent at least an hour trying to put out the main fire.May or may not be fuel related.

 

265 David L : We don't even know what happened, never mind why. The aircraft was quite possibly flying very well until it hit the ground.

 

266 Starlionblue : Incorrect. FBW is not a safety net. FBW in its purest sense doesn't even have envelope protection.Airbus style FBW with envelope protection would no

 

267 David L : To be honest, I can't remember what I read about a post-crash fire. I have to admit that I did fall into the old trap of confusing "fuel starvation"

 

268 pylon101 : But it didn't prevent Armavia A-320 from flying into the sea a few years ago.

 

269 Starlionblue : Aren't we agreeing here?

 

270  trystero : RIP for all on board, and best thoughts for family and friends. Acordingly to the latest news the flight data was recovered and is in good conditions,

 

271 LTC8K6 : So the black line is the proper glideslope and it was well below that and began to hit things before crashing?

 

272 YYZYYT : Starlionblue beat to me to this point... - VIP / presidential aircraft, 20 yrs old (give or take) - based on a commercial design that is 40 yrs old (

 

273 sovietjet : What the hell does FBW have anything to do with the safety of the aircraft??FBW simply replaces mechanical control linkages with electric cables.

 

274 acabgd : Please enlighten us what is the pilot error which in this case could've been prevented by fly-by-wire.I'm still shocked by what some people post her

 

275 pylon101 : Well, still it is misterious a little bit: the aircraft was supposed to keep 60 meters (ca. 200 ft) to catch runway.It's very low for a beast with a

 

276  Pihero : One of the characteristics of this accident is the - relatively speaking - low impact speed, mainly tangential to the ground and dislocation through

 

 

277  rfields5421 : Apparently the NDB was located quite a bit east of the field to align with the runway heading. On an approach from the west, keeping the NDB aligned

 

278 rfields5421 : Might also mention that from looking at the site on Google Earth, it appears that near where the plane struck the first objects, the ground is about

 

279 pylon101 : Regarding updated avionics. In Russian news they showed cockpit of 102 in Samara. It was not a modern glass cockpit, of course. But there was FMS - or

 

280  David L : Yes, I was too lazy to go back and check but I was really just making the point that, even without a fire, though possible, it just doesn't seem like

 

281 rafaelyyz : From what is known thus far, 1.5km out everything looked fine. Then an increase in the descent rate until the 1km mark when they hit the first object.

 

282 rafaelyyz : It's hard to imagine that the Polish Air Force would confuse the two. But if what the Russians are saying is true, that these Polish pilots had probl

 

283 comorin : Pihero, there have been several low-speed crashes, including the LHR T7, where at least a few pax have been able to walk away from the debris.How co

 

284 giopan1975 : Didn't BA 777 crash at stall speed?

 

285 A342 : First, the 777 pilots were fully aware of their situation and prepared for the crash-landing accordingly.Second, the 777 didn't crash in a forest an

 

286 acabgd : I call it facts as the weather was confirmed by both Polish and Russian officials to have been below minima and Russian officials also confirmed that

 

287 Kaiarahi : The "fact" that the weather was below minima (if it was, consistently - fog banks have a habit of rolling through) says nothing about planning, or la

 

288 Starlionblue : If there's no ILS, there's no glideslope to intercept ("catch"). Of course the aircraft was low. The pilots were was landing!Your comment about the

 

289  David L : I don't think anyone is suggesting that "the Polish Air Force" would confuse the two, just that a couple of individuals, more used to operating on QN

 

290 acabgd : They seemed so determined to land that they finally crashed. If they've planned for a diversion in advance (and they should've known what kind of wea

 

291 rafaelyyz : I deliberately typed "Polish Air Force" to emphasize, perhaps poorly, that having Russia practically next door, and having been a Soviet satellite fo

 

292  kubus : It hasn't been mentioned but the same crew of the fatal flight on Sat, was in Smolensk on Wed with the Prime Minister Tusk.So it's not like they were

 

293 rafaelyyz : LOL, is that the Russian alphabet stuck to the side there?Perhaps not a good example.

 

294 rfields5421 : They made one approach ONLY to see if they could land. Since they were at least 1 km from the threshold they may not yet have reached the minima poin

 

295 sovietjet : It is an active military airbase and has RSBN

 

296 Aesma : I read somewhere that often in Russia there would be two NDB, one at each end of the runway, with the one on the opposite side of the approach path a

 

297 giopan1975 : Fierce and irresponsible speculation from people I know and live in Russia suggests that Putin somehow brought down the plane because the Polish were

 

298 3MilesToWRO : Yeah. He's a known fisherman so he hid in the trees, hooked the airplane with his fishing stick and brought it down.

 

299 3MilesToWRO : 777 crashed wings level. Had 154 crashed wings level in this little forest, the outcome would be much different.

 

300 3MilesToWRO : Well, let's not exaggerate. Everyone was learning Russian but this doesn't mean everyone knows it, not to mention knows well.Especially after 15 yea

 

301 Burkhard : No. Fullstop. Putin himself was very interested in the ceremony, since it would have served as a solution of one of the outstanding problems.Improve

 

 

302 Pihero : Questions : - What were the minima ? - What was the approach procedure they were shooting ? -You're citing several times an NDB approach.Where is th

 

303 ThirtyEcho : Pihero: not a lot of info here and it would be very nice if someone could post the current plate. Conventional wisdom, so far, is that it was an NDB a

 

304 David L : If a source hasn't already been posted then, yes, you do. Fair enough. My main reason for mentioning it was to show that there are many things that c

 

305  acabgd : Where do I find justification that they were determined to land? Well, if you have a non-precision approach with weather below minima and you still t

 

306 Danny : Plates for russian military airports are not published.

 

307 ThirtyEcho : I didn't ask if it was published; I asked if anybody had one.

 

308 David L : For the sake of argument, if they went below minima, did they know they had gone below minima - i.e. was it deliberate or did they misjudge where the

 

309 Pihero : Certainly not : Your picture only shows the very derelict eastern apron of that military airport and the two taxiways (?), the right one leading to t

 

310 Burkhard : You are aware that if somebody publishes secret Russian military information on the web his health insurance will not cover what follows...

 

311 rolfen : I would like to know what airline you are talking about and keep in mind that airlines are free to give or make up any reasons they want.I think the

 

312 Starlionblue : Quite. Those things apply to planes like the DC-9 and the 727, plenty of which are in service and which few people would consider unsafe types.Sure,

 

313  Kaiarahi : Do you really think ground transportation is part of the pilots' flight planning?

 

314 David L : Good point. Anyway, on similar occasions, including in the West, are the alternative plans usually reported?Unless those plans are put into action,

 

315 giopan1975 : How on earth could the prospect of a logistical nightmare or "pressure from behind" justify some "hawk" crashing an aircraft with 90 souls on board?

 

316  cysafan : It is actually not pilot error at all... Report also says in the CVR that the pilot was simply been pressurised by the President to land the aircraft

 

317  AVLNative : Interesting... http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100413/158559617.html Crashed Polish plane landed without permission - air traffic controller The crew of th

 

318 rolfen : With the Captain being the final authority on board, doesn't bad judgment qualify as pilot error?[Edited 2010-04-13 07:36:14]

 

319  Mir : Just because something doesn't justify a crash doesn't mean it can't be a cause. It's been reported that the Polish president has a history of pressu

 

320 Starlionblue : The hypothetical scenario you describe sounds exactly like pilot error...

 

321 giopan1975 : If "pressure from behind" is the actual "cause" then the deceased captain took not 1 but 2 wrong decisions and he is fully responsible for the accide

 

322 KochamLOT : PIC is a PIC. This term does not change from country to country. Being the PIC of a flight such as that one is not one that just any pilot can fly - i

 

323  rfields5421 : So do you have evidence the crew was not trying to execute a missed approach? They made an approach and went down. That is all we know.We don't know

 

324 David L : What report? Where did you read that the CVR reveals pressure from the president? The alleged "four failed attempts" to land has also been questioned

 

325 giopan1975 : Excuse me but what completion of what mission are we talking about? Landing safely or attending some ceremony? Or some other mission we do not know?

 

326 David L : Since they didn't land, I wonder how they can say that. We don't know if they had decided to land. Is that report confirmed or is it just another med

 

 

327 David L : In a perfect world, both.Anything else is a compromise, at best.

 

328 rfields5421 : Two, or more, NDB on a runway centerline on opposite ends occurs, or rather did occur, frequently in the US.NDB are being phased out in the US. And

 

329 rfields5421 : He was the president of the nation. Apparently the top figure in the government of that nation. The Mission was for him and a delegation to attend a

 

330 giopan1975 : So you are saying that Air Force pilots are brain washed to often compromise flight safety in order to accomplish their mission?And even if the answ

 

331 Kaiarahi : I don't read him as saying anything of the kind - you're putting words into his mouth and creating straw men.

 

332 giopan1975 : So what do you think Kaiarahi? Are AF pilots trained to often compromise flight safety in order to accomplish their mission or not?Or is getting bac

 

333 3MilesToWRO : As a matter of fact, this is what soldiers are for. Soldiers are not for safety, soldiers are for completing the mission.And it's not so easy to cha

 

334  David L : I'm quite sure they're not "trained to often compromise flight safety" but, as human beings in the military, their judgement might be influenced by t

 

335 David L : I don't know how the odds are but if it turns out to be true then it would have to come from other evidence, evidence that we haven't seen so far.

 

336  Pihero : Hi ! Perhaps you'd like to download the whole sat picture of the accident site here the earlier traces of the impacts are quite visible, especially a

 

337 acabgd : No, the wreckage is to the left of the centerline, the first point of impact seems to be dead on the centerline.Oh, no I don't have the slightest id

 

338 Pihero : You can twist and you can wriggle all you want, the picture you linked doesn't give you that info.Hence your mistaken comment on not-aloigned, and m

 

339 Kaiarahi : I've never flown a VIP flight. But I did fly Hercs into Vietnam at the end of the war. As a military pilot, you are briefed on and aware of the wider

 

340 Kaiarahi : Amen.

 

341  acabgd : Then i must again emphasize what I said above, you should really try to read the replies of other more thoroughly.If from this you've read only plan

 

342  Pihero : To my knowledge, the first CNN report. CNN Report on TU 154 Crash A very interesting piece of news as it seems that there are different standards on a

 

343 David L : But your initial comment, among the other things you said, implied that they were flying off the centre-line.That they started to deviate to the lef

 

344  3MilesToWRO : Of course, you are absolutely right. But before we have evidence, we have only media information and Looks very much like inner half of outboard flap

 

345 rfields5421 : No, of course not. There is a reason for every flight. For some flights a pilot and the flight planners have to consider the wider mission as a coupl

 

346  3MilesToWRO : Well, it's CNN after all. Not some "Sleepy Hollow Courier" And anyway, he does not wander so freely. He could go few meters left and right from the r

 

347 3MilesToWRO : Nothing more than fog. Wind 3 m/s I've heard, cold indeed. Not a single voice blaming other weather conditions.

 

348 acabgd : Why I would expect it? Because it was a VVIP flight and things happen. If the US President flies, say, from Washington to San Francisco, I'm almost s

 

349 David L : You're still missing the point. Why would you expect such arrangements to be reported? Do you see alternative arrangements reported every time there'

 

350 giopan1975 : I do not think that there are any signs of an attempted missed approach. Rather signs of "lost in fog" or of childish persistent to locate the runway

 

351 giopan1975 : He could have taken some of the debris as a souvenir back home to carry on the investigation himself.

 

 

352 Pihero : Actually, the days of the "look see" are long gone : Nowadays,either you are above the minima, and you can start an approach , or you ain't and there

 

353 3MilesToWRO : Visibility is reported to have been 400m.

 

354  BuyantUkhaa : I hadn't seen the second photo yet, but I used the first as an overlay on G Earth with the centre line and what seems to be the direction of impact:

 

355 Kaiarahi : I've just remembered another example. When Obama visited YOW was about 30 minutes behind sked. Obama had an important engagement in Washington (I've

 

356 acabgd : Aaah, sorry my bad. Well, certainly not reported previous to the accident because of clear security implications, but once this tragedy happened I wo

 

357 giopan1975 : If that plane had hit some debris and had turned into the newest version of the Concorde with the US Pres on board, then anybody would have every rig

 

358 Pihero : @3Miles to WRO 400 meters,yes, but at the civilian weather station, apparently. You're in Poland and you should be more aware of the political implica

 

359  David L : I'm not convinced. I think everyone would be far more preoccupied with what had happened. It would be quite naive PR to blurt out that sort of inform

 

360 Kaiarahi : If pilots adopted your view of risk, there'd be no flights - ever! In fact, the pilots would never get out of bed in the morning.[Edited 2010-04-13 1

 

361 Aesma : The permission was not necessary, it means that the controller is not taking responsibility.Interesting points. Maybe should they have traveled the

 

362 Kaiarahi : He is the head of state, although the prime minister may functionally have more powers.

 

363 rfields5421 : I haven't seem any of that in the US media. Very interesting. Thank you. Thanks for the information. I'm always a bit concerned when the information

 

364 rafaelyyz : They would have known, presumably, that the yak-40 carrying reporters from the media had already landed prior.Therefore they would have surmised tha

 

365 WROORD : Isn't true that Russian measure the altitude differently. I know there is something with that being different that would explain why the traffic cont

 

366  rafaelyyz : New info being reported, if I understand correctly, that the pilot increased thrust, attempted to gain altitude while initiating a turn at the same ti

 

367 Aesma : I don't know if you could say it's the same as AF1, but that probably applies to any country outside the US.The 154s were the bigger in the fleet so

 

368  Boeing4ever : The aircraft in question is indeed Poland's "Air Force One". The 36th Special Aviation Regiment, based in Warsaw, operates a fleet of Mi-8 Helicopter

 

369 Aesma : Russians use meters. How I envy them ! Interesting. That would go well with spatial disorientation : they realized they were too low, but too late. e

 

370 rafaelyyz : I believe they're not even going to wait for the next administration. I'm trying to find the source at the moment where this was announced.Changes w

 

371 Ltbewr : Is it possible that the Pilots and other flight crew were not sufficiently aware of their situation, altitude, speed due to the distractions of having

 

372 pylon101 : Altimeter settings might be an issue due to different requirements. Though Russian requirements obviously didn't apply to Polish AF1. Here is from our

 

373 3MilesToWRO : Naming "Polish Air Force One" is actually only a joke. As it's for almost all other "local AF1". Air Force One is actually not a plane, it's an istit

 

374 acabgd : The airport should not have been unfamiliar to the crew, as they flew the Polish prime minister to the same field last Wednesday.

 

375  CharlieNoble : Haha good one Burkhard. Although it makes me laugh to think that even a military base approach plate would be a 'secret'.Are they afraid that the en

 

376 Kaiarahi : No pilot I know would call him/herself familiar with an airport after one landing and one take-off.

 

 

377 David L : That's what I was wondering. Due to their recent visit, we can probably say they weren't "unfamiliar" with the airport but can we say with confidence

 

378 rfields5421 : Anyone heard anything about temperatures? The CNN reporter said there were patches of unmelted snow on the ground in the area in his written story.C

 

379 Starlionblue : Well, technically Air Force One is not a specific aircraft. Any Air Force Aircraft flying the US President is designated "Air Force One", whether it

 

380 3MilesToWRO : I've heard about 1 degree Celsius, so not much.Indeed, sudden icing could drag them lower than expected.

 

381 rfields5421 : Yes we know that, in extreme detail. But besides the specific definition as the aircraft with the US President aboard, Air Force One is also widely u

 

382  rfields5421 : http://www.thenews.pl/national/artyk...wo-landing-attempts--not-four.html Two of three black boxes examined.Two landing attempts Okay, how much of wh

 

383 Kaiarahi : If the previous flight had been in VFR conditions with an opposite approach, you could probably say they were familiar with the taxiways and not much

 

384 Burkhard : As it has been pointed out, this is a strange flight. The president is not the head of the Government in Poland.The Prime Minister represented Polan

 

385 Jarek : A lot of miss information in your post. The President is not the head of the government in Poland, but he is the Head of State.By constitution he re

 

386 Kaiarahi : Not so. The ceremony was held the previous Wednesday and was attended by PMs Tusk and Putin.President Kaczynski was not invited, so decided to hold

 

387  AVLNative : I think that we're going to see a variety of claims as this unfolds, for example http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-plane-crash-claims-Polish-MP.

 

388 pylon101 : Wow. It is turning into a "psycho-maniac post traumatic depression" with Moscow' hand everywhere.Actually Russian officals put much hope on this even

 

389  dstefanc : Here is the latest information I read. The article is in polish, so I will just give a summary of the details: It states that the crew knew for about

 

390 acabgd : Isn't that way too fast if they were going for the approach?160 meters per second is 310 knots!?

 

391 Kaiarahi : Looks like more misinformation.The wreckage doesn't look like a 300+ kt impact.

 

392 dstefanc : That seemed odd to me as well, but I quoted what the text was saying. Maybe they made a mistake with the units (common - look at NASA) and meant to w

 

393 Kaiarahi : They only thing they left out was that Putin was hiding in the trees with his fishing rod, snared the plane as it passed overhead, and reeled it down

 

394 L410Turbolet : Talk about overstatement of a century. Putin is the chief whitewasher of Soviet history, Stalin's era in particular.Huh? You seem to be completely l

 

395 Danny : Not at all, it's just one idiot and he has been widely condemned in Poland. It is good for ordinary Russians to learn what happened in Katyn as well.

 

396  TeamAmerica : Awww...c'mon. You miss Mars orbit one time and nobody ever lets you live it down. Besides...the error was made by Lockheed-Martin, not NASA.

 

397 pylon101 : Something is really wrong with numbers here. 150 meters per sec is 540 km/h What could make them fly that fast?Also having such a speed they could e

 

398 Pihero : Not really. It depends whether both people want to bury the hatchet and start again in a new peaceful relationship.Hence a very visible ceremony in

 

399 3MilesToWRO : All those "3 to 5 seconds" and "speed 150 to 180 m/s" come from General Prosecutor office or similar source.So from no one of any aircraft knowledge,

 

400 pylon101 : The Chairwoman of the Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) stated there had been no pressure on the crew on the tape.She also asked to ignore news out

 

401  EI787 : Please continue here: Polish AF Tu-154 Crash In Smolensk (Part 2) (by EI787 Apr 15 2010 in Military Aviation & Space Flight) Many thanks.Any addi

 

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27 CPH-R : I think the general interest in the civilian aspect of this crash warrants that it stays here. Especially since it looks like a good chunk of the Pol

 

28 BritishWorld : Quite true - and further to my post about Sky News' reporting of the President's "confirmed" death, I should just clarify that that assertion is comi

 

29 Christopherwoo : Just heard from my polish friend all passengers were officials, the top 80 in the country including popes and diplomats....bad day

 

30 CPH-R : Danish Tv-2 News is currently showing pictures from Polish TV, who apparently has found a camera crew who are at the scene.Plenty of debris spread ar

 

31 Andrej : Al Jazeera (ENG) just showed latest images. The crash site is in woods, the weather seemed foggy, and it does look indeed like Tu-154.Really sad news

 

32 EDICHC : Truly shocking news...condolences to all Polish A-netters. A terrible human tragedy, but by the sounds of it there will be a huge political void in Po

 

33 MadameConcorde : Why did they put them all on one plane is one thing I can't understand. My deep respect goes to the people and the Nation of Poland.

 

 

398 Pihero : Not really. It depends whether both people want to bury the hatchet and start again in a new peaceful relationship.Hence a very visible ceremony in

 

399 3MilesToWRO : All those "3 to 5 seconds" and "speed 150 to 180 m/s" come from General Prosecutor office or similar source.So from no one of any aircraft knowledge,

 

400 pylon101 : The Chairwoman of the Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) stated there had been no pressure on the crew on the tape.She also asked to ignore news out

 

401  EI787 : Please continue here: Polish AF Tu-154 Crash In Smolensk (Part 2) (by EI787 Apr 15 2010 in Military Aviation & Space Flight) Many thanks.Any addi

 

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